Forgiveness and certainty of salvation

Submitted by Lactantius Jr (United Kingdom), Oct 23, 2006 at 10:02

You quote a Hadith that merits detailed comment Hafiz, because it has profound implications for Allah's nature.

You quoted your own translation as follows:-

if you people didn't sin, Allah would have replaced you with people that will sin and ask for forgiveness,and then Allah will forgive them)

which prompts me to ask, if Allah needs sinful human beings in order to exercise his forgiveness, what does this suggest about him?

Let's look at what the Sahi Hadith actually say, and the very clear implications it has for Allah's nature:-

"Abu Sirma reported that when the time of the death of Abu Ayyub Ansari drew near, he said: ' used to conceal from you a thing which I heard from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Had you not committed sins, Allah would have brought into existence a creation that would have committed sin (and Allah) would have forgiven them.' "Sahih Muslim, Book 037, Number 6620)

"Abu Ayyub Ansari reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: 'If you were not to commit sins, Allah would have swept you out of existence and would have replaced you by another people who have committed sin, and then asked forgiveness from Allah, and He would have granted them pardon.' " Sahih Muslim, Book 037, Number 6621)

"Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) having said: 'By Him in Whose Hand is my life, if you were not to commit sin, Allah would sweep you out of existence and He would replace (you by) those people who would commit sin and seek forgiveness from Allah, and He would have pardoned them.' " Sahih Muslim, Book 037, Number 6622)

Muhammad's statements that humans must commit sins, since Allah needed to display forgiveness, presuppose the validity of the philosophical argument, that God being love, implies that God is a multi-personal Being, since genuine love can only exist and be truly expressed between at least two parties. Muhammad realized that in order for Allah to truly be forgiving, he must have a way of expressing it, which necessitated the creation of rational beings. Yet Muhammad's statements, clearly prove that Allah was in need of sinful human beings to exercise his divine prerogative of forgiveness, so he created them.

Thus, Muhammad's claims recorded in Sahi Bukhari and Sahi Muslim, place you in a in a dilemma Hafiz, since Muhammad's position basically admits that Allah is not self-sufficient, but is totally dependent upon his creatures, in order to express his attributes and characteristics, proving that Allah is not an all-sufficient deity!

On a personal basis Hafiz, the most distressing thing to me about Islam, is that Muslims, with one specific exception I will return to, have no assurance about their eternal destiny, Muhammad himself not knowing how Allah would deal with him, recorded as follows in Surah 47:9 (Abdullah Yusuf Ali):-

"Say: ‘I am no bringer of new-fangled doctrine among the apostles, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration; I am but a Warner open and clear.'"

The exception I now refer to, is that of killing and being killed for Allah's cause, and this is documented in Surahs 61:10-12, 4:74, and 9:111, which guarantee al janna to Islamic shahids in an economic bargain. Indeed, these three references explicitly use words that connote buying and selling and signing a contract of sale, the currency behind the deals being the death of the shahid.

Saajid Badat from Gloucester, the wanabee bomber of a passenger airliner, until he mercifully got cold feet and chickened-out, clearly understood this "bargain," writing to his parents:-

"I have a sincere desire to sell my soul to Allah in return for paradise."

"Explosion plot of ‘walking angel' "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/gloucestershire/4305161.stm

You say there is a big difference Hafiz, in our viewpoint about Salvation and our need of a Saviour, it is in fact a massive difference.

I don't care for telling stories, much preferring to let the plain and absolutely dependable Word of God speak through the Bible, and I have done that Hafiz, in outlining what the New Testament says about salvation available only through the Lord Jesus Christ, but I will make an exception and tell a story.

Imagine you have fallen into deep water Hafiz, you can't swim, and you will drown. On dry land are standing all the philosophers, gurus and religious teachers from down the ages, Muhammad being one of them, and they are all shouting different instructions to you on how to swim.

Setting Himself completely apart from all of them, the Lord Jesus Christ dives into the water and rescues you, He saves your life, and in doing so, He drowns and loses His own life. What a massive difference.

Thank you so much Hafiz for your greeting of peace, which I gladly return to you, also thanking you for saying you hope we will be saved, and I close by emphasising that we can "know so" not just hope so. We're not worth it, we don't deserve it, and we can't earn it, it's a free gift given to us when we put our complete trust in the Lord Jesus Christ to save us, which is outlined in the passages I have previously mentioned from the New Testament. This is not conceit, presumption or arrogance Hafiz, just taking the God of the Bible at His Word, and as the writer of the old Gospel song puts it, "When the roll is called up yonder I'll be there."

Have a look at the lovely words to it, and if you have a sound card and speakers on your computer , listen to the tune, it's at:-

http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/w/h/e/whenroll.htm

You deny you need a Saviour Hafiz, will you please tell me what you are depending on to save you?

With kind regards and best wishes, and hoping very much to meet you "when the roll is called up yonder."

Lactantius Jr.

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