To Aamir Ali: What remains of religious dogmas after using the filter of logic?

Submitted by Plato (India), Sep 6, 2007 at 22:11

Aamir ali you wrote:

>>I fail to understand that why most of the comments are quoting Quran since the one who are quoting had preset their minds to reject Quran...I am not a religious scholar nor a priest...i am simple muslim who discuss on basis of logic..and any logical person can understand my point..<<

It is your assumption that those who quote the Koran have ‘preset' their minds to reject it. However, even if that is true if the logic of their argument is true why can't you accept it. You claim to be a simple Muslim who debates on the basis of logic. So why don't you refute their arguments using history, ethics, facts and figures?

>>When we talk about religion one should understand a basic fact...If a person is following a religion he or she must accept that his or her religion is absolutely true and all other religions are wrong and invalid. only then one is faithful with his or her religion...Allowing others to practice their religion is a different debate...<<

Aamir Ali by saying allowing others to practice their religion is a different debate you are trying to avoid the crux of the whole matter which is the reason for this call from some quarters to ban your holy book. Your holy book says unequivocally that others have no right to practice their faith, that all worship is for Allah. Can you deny this simple truth about Islam.

You want to have a discussion on the basis of logic. Can you give me your logic to show why such a book which showers curses and abuses on people who do not believe in it, threatens them with unspeakable tortures and says no other religion except the one of submission to Islam is acceptable should be respected or allowed to adorn our book-shelves? (3:85, 2:88, 2:161)

What does your logic tell you when a book sings praises of death instead of celebrating life? What kind of logic does the author of that book have when he claims he was the creator of life? Why did he go to the trouble of creating life if he preferred death to life? (16:107, 14:03, 6:32)

Unfortunately what you say about accepting the absolute truth of one's religion invalidating other religions in his own mind is logical. That is why we have the Muslim problem. The Muslim's religion tells him to fight people of other religions till religion is only for Allah (61:9, 8:39, 9:29)

>>If you think that your religion is ok as well as other one then you are making serious mistake..either you are out of your mind or need some therapy....<<

Very true and logical. But reflect on the fact that 99.9 percent of people born into a particular faith think that theirs is the one true faith and can argue till the end of time to prove it and disprove the other.

Let me prove to you using some simple logic why Allah is not what you think He is, i.e. the epitome of what is good. Can someone who claims to have all the best virtues also create evil. Logic tells you that he will not. But Allah Himself claims He is also responsible for evil. 113.1-3 SHAKIR: Say: I seek refuge in the Lord of the dawn, From the evil of what He has created, And from the evil of the utterly dark night when it comes,

In this incantation Allah is telling you to seek refuge from the evil He has created, including darkness, another of his creations. Aamir Ali don't you think one has to be out of one's mind to believe in Allah being merciful, or beneficent?? Either Allah needs therapy to cure Him of his proclivity to create evil or those who follow Him need it to persuade them not follow such a being.

>>Islam follow the same rule...and i am sure other religions do follow the same rule otherwise we cant consider those as religion...<<

Right. But can a religion whose deity claims to create evil be considered worthy of respect?

>>After evaluating numerous factors one can clearly understood that the whole universe is under one command..There is no share of power..there is no clash nor any conflict in nature...<<

What happened to logic my dear Aamir Ali? Instead of the universe let us for a moment focus on our little earth. Everything on earth is Allah's creation and under his command as He claims ad infinitum. It follows human beings are His creation. Human beings have always clashed among themselves, including now in Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan… Under his command his creatures (nature) are in conflict all the time.

>>This means that central power is recognized...all rules and regulations are made by single creator...<<

Logic again. You say all rules and regulations are made by a single creator. The rules and regulations of human conflict with all the evil it causes can also be traced back to the central power. Allah has painted Himself into a corner by claiming to be self-existent and the creator of everything including Shaitan. He created Shaitan for a purpose as revealed in 38:78-85 and 15:32-43. Evil is that evil does. Who does your logic tell you is the fountain of all evil, Aamir Ali?

I>>f this is understood then all religions following same path are near truth...but actual truth is stressed with reasoning and proof in Quran...

Qran is the only book on earth which confirms that Bible and Torate (of Jews) as books of Allah..is there any other book giving this high status to these books???? <<

One little fact you have forgotten. The Koran claims legitimacy from the Bible and the Torat since it says they predict Mohammed's coming. So if the Koran denounced these books as false Mohammed would be left high and dry as a false prophet. Logic again, Aamir Ali.

>>I think this is enough to proof that Islam is not against Christians and Jews but want to address them that you are being mislead for wrong reasons...Furthermore you cannot call yourself muslim if you reject existence of these books...any doubts??? if we give so much respect to your prophets and books then why Ban Islam???<<

So you don't want Christians and Jews to ban Islam because it respects them. But what about the condemnation of polytheistic and atheistic religions in the Koran? Would nations whose religions are not respected by Islam be justified in banning the Koran? Use your logical mind to find the answer, Mr. Aamir Ali.

>>..which is not against Christians and Jews but their modified and illogical theories..because man can made errors and these errors were injected in these sacred books...<<

Logic, what has happened to logic?? Just a few sentences ago you said the Bible and torat are books of Allah. Can man inject errors into Allah's books? If man could not inject errors into Allah's book the Koran how come they could into the previous books of Allah. Did Allah's powers increase by the time He revealed the Koran? Or, tauba, tauba, is it just possible that the Koran is also corrupted by man as it was once by the Satanic verses? Are you aware of an Al Qaeda (??) Koran, a Cairo Koran, a Tunisian Koran and a Lebanese Koran? The versions that Othman had destroyed? the Koran without the diacritical marks?

I think banning islam is no solution to problem..in fact more open and decent debates among these major religions will resolve maximum confusions on earth...but i think its a dream....

>>Being a computer professional I strongly believe in day of judgement...because you are well aware of backup and restore procedures..all of us agree that the whole system can be recovered after disaster..<<

The universe god has created does seem to be a disaster area, especially the earth with tsunamis, cyclones, wars, pestilence and god-given diseases. What purpose would be served by god backing these up and restoring them without erasing the errors he created in his first attempt?

>>Quran, Bible and all scriptures indicate that Allah (God) is writing every thing which will be revealed in the day of judgement..this means a detailed log is being maintained with Allah which will have all events and things we did during our life...If day of judgement is removed from our minds we will become animals...<<

Amazing I thought when I read about Allah maintaining a detailed log. But then I remembered Allah Himself confessing in the Koran that he abrogates verses when he thinks of better ones. He also reveals he is somewhat mathematically challenged or has lapses of memory as He says He created the universe in six days in some places and in another place in eight days. He even claims in some place that He has only to say BE and it is. But obviously He seemed to have forgotten that He had that power when He laboured for days creating the universe.

When he divides up property of the deceased He ends up in a real mess.

On judgment day I could realistically point out to Him, if He is inclined to consign me to hell after having a look at his log, that if His logbook couldn't tell Him how many days He took to create the universe how could it contain information on what a speck of dust on another speck of dust in the universe did? I hope He will give me the benefit of doubt.

So logically I can see your point when you say that Allah is reduced to maintaining a log book of all that is happening in the universe. But given his forgetfulness and being mathematically challenged I hope some of his angels are standing by to correct Him.

>>Dear plato you said

"Since the day of judgment is not yet upon us the empirical testing will have to be postponed indefinitely. But we can examine the strength and truth of what you say using simple logic."

Unfortunately you and I will not live forever..infact if we cross 60 years we will be lucky enough...but eventually we will die..if the day of judgement comes after 1000 years lets assume...it doesnot matter because we will be dead during this time...but we will surely be brought back to live..you know backup & restore...then both will be in the day of judgement...thats what we are afraid of...<<

Dear Aamir Ali, as a computer specialist you also know that data can be irretrievably lost when the hard disk or the back up system is damaged. That is what happens when you die, the I and the you all merge back un-restorably into the lifeless part of the unverse. God will only hear crackles and hisses and see a blank screen when he tries to boot up his computer.

>>I hope my point is understood...and you will not overlook good points in our religion instead of searching for bad ones...<<

Other religions, especially that of the polytheists, are willing to agree that there are some good points to your religion. But does your religion see any good points in theirs??

regards

Plato

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