To Aamir Ali:New true translation? Have we been reading untrue ones so far?

Submitted by Plato (India), Sep 21, 2007 at 08:54

Aamir Ali, here is another big one for you to chew on.

>>Please visit http://www.central-mosque.com/quran/english_quraan_mufti_taqi.pdf for proper translation..<<

One simple fact seems to escape committed Muslims. Their insistence that the Koran is practically untranslatable (the reason why they insist that only the Koran in Arabic contains the real message of Allah) means that the book is incomprehensible to the large majority of Muslims (and mankind) who speak other languages. Since they are Muslims they forget their disputing the correctness of the translated Koran is like the Christians disputing the correctness of the various versions. Now read from your favourite translation of the Koran.

[14:4] We did not send any messenger but (speaking) in the language of his people, so that he might clearly convey the message to them. So, Allah lets go astray whom He wills and lets find guidance whom He wills. And He is the Mighty, the Wise.

Aamir Ali, did Allah send a messenger speaking in Urdu? So as Allah Himself admits the message of the Koran will not be clear to you. Now read carefully the second sentence of this ayat to understand why Allah has kept His message unclear to you non-Arab Muslims. The Mighty Allah is telling you, Aamir Ali, that he may let you go astray by not revealing the Koran in Arabic since it is a message only for the Arabs and not for you. Allah gave your ancestors a message in your language but the Arabs came and thrust theirs down the throats of your unwilling ancestors.

The large majority of Muslims cannot understand Arabic. This means they believe in a religion they do not fully understand as whatever is translated to them may be suspected of mistranslation. And since Allah accepts prayers only in Arabic (which dialect?) it means that since they pray in all kinds of accents they may in fact in some cases be blaspheming Allah.

>>I want to give you an example for similar quotes..which non beleivers say that they are misguided by Allah so they donot deserve any punishment...

Suppose you are CEO of a company and found that two of your employees are involved in stealing money and other smaller crimes...you start observing them and hold your action against them..after few days you realize that Mr.A is doing crimes frequently and Mr.B is not a serious criminal..You simply send a general warning to all staff that if someone found in any misconduct will be taken to task..

After this notice you observe again that the crime pattern is similar...you call Mr. B and warn him that you have found evidence against him but giving one more chance to come back to right path...(Guided)

But you let Mr. A continue his work and didnt warn him and pretend that you dont know about his acts (Misguided)...Mr. A was overlooked so that more evidence is gathered and strong case is made against him so that he cannot deny and can be charged and punished heavily.,..<<

Using your story of the CEO let me show you how Allah does not come out smelling of roses.

First of all there is a big difference between the CEO and Allah. Allah knows the intentions of the two criminals, the CEO does not. It is just possible that the serious criminal, A, is robbing the company to help his cancer-ridden child whereas the other one is trying to pay off a gambling debt. Be that as it may but let us look at the moral/ethical outcome of your story.

Because the CEO thinks A is a serious criminal and B a non-serious one he decides to guide B and not A (an immoral and unethical decision to start with). This is a sort of sting operation against A. (Actually not, because Allah knew even before A was born that he was going to be an unrepentant criminal, yet He let him be born and pretended to let A think that he had choices between good and evil). As a serious Muslim you will understand when I say that even opportunities for criminal acts are by the will of Allah.

So Allah presents A, who He knows even before he was created i.e. was created by Allah Himself with criminal tendencies, with opportunities for committing crimes. A commits the crimes he was created for. Allah says, aha got you, you committed the crimes I myself created you to commit. Now, I, Allah the All-wise, the All-knowing am going to make you suffer for the crimes I created you to commit and you had no option but to commit.

Now let me paste here what you said at the beginning: I want to give you an example for similar quotes..which non beleivers say that they are misguided by Allah so they donot deserve any punishment...

Aamir Ali, I now challenge you to find a flaw in this argument I have given in which Allah comes out smelling not of roses but of you know what. Are non-believers not right in claiming that since they are misguided by Allah they do not deserve punishment??

I can't blame Allah for his devious nature, which he freely admits when He says He is a great deceiver. After all Allah is the CEO of two organisations, Heaven and Hell. He needs customers to fill both. Unless He creates people who will be criminals how will He have customers for hell?

>>When Allah say that nobody can guide someone to whom Allah misquided means that due to his regular pattern of sins Allah wants to drag him to hell gradually..because more crimes he commits means more punishment...<<

Muslims keep forgetting that Allah already knows all the crimes Mr A will commit during his lifetime. Why does Allah want to slowly drag Mr.A to hell. Mr. A's role and mission in life is already written by the Great Plotter Himself.

>>Unfortunately due to extracting only some verses without reference to context..create confusions in ones mind..this way of analyzing facts is invalid in all cases..whether Qura<<

The great consolation Muslims have whenever unbelievers point out outrageous verses in the Koran – context my dear unbeliever, context, you are out of context. You have heard of a drowning man clutching at straws, that is what the context excuse remind us of.

You have quoted these several aya from surah 2 in reply to my question no. 1 apparently to show that true meanings of the Koran emerge only when read in the context with a other verses

I sometimes quote single ayat having read the whole Surah to reduce typing time assuming that you know the context. But now let us examine all the aya you have quoted one by one.

2. The Cow

With the name of Allah, the All-Merciful, the Very-Merciful.

[2:1]Alif.Lam. Mim .

One of Allah's mysterious messages?

[2:2]This Book has no doubt in it - a guidance for the God-fearing,

Aamir Ali you have disagreed with this ayat in no uncertain terms by saying that the Translation you have mentioned is the proper translation of the Koran. If this book had not doubt in it why would translations by other Arabic scholars be improper?

[2:3]who believe in the Unseen, and are steadfast in Salah (prayer), and spend out of what We have provided them;

Allah is asking to believe in the Unseen. Allah has to emphasise belief in the Unseen as otherwise people will question his very existence. And I believe in ghosts, fairies and goblins (jinns?) which are also unseen, as per Allah's orders.

[2:4]and who believe in what has been revealed to you and what has been revealed before you; and they have faith in the Hereafter.

To my forefathers (and yours too) was revealed the Vedas, the Geeta, the Upanishads, the Tripitak and the Buddhist sutras etc. I believe them. Why does Islam then object to believers in these scriptures and does dawa to convert them to an Arab religion?

[2:5]It is these who are guided by their Lord; and it is just these who are successful.

Let me be guided by what was revealed to my forefathers. Don't do dawa to me about a religion meant for the Arabs. (Read 14:4 I have pasted later in the post)

[2:6]Surely for those who have disbelieved, it is all the same whether you warn them or you warn them not: they do not believe.

If Allah is so sure that it is useless warning people (and He should know as He created them to be disbelievers in the first place as He Himself claims) why does He ask the prophet and other Muslims to preach Islam? Mark the underlined words. For instance I have disbelieved, so it is useless preaching to me.

[2:7]Allah has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing; and on their eyes there is a covering, and for them awaits a mighty punishment.

2:6 and 2:7 are the verses I was asking you about. Have you really read them? How does your CEO story match up with this statement of Allah, Who says He has set a seal on their hearts? And He should know having created them with a seal on their hearts. It is like the CEO creating a situation where employee A does not know that what he is doing is a crime. The CEO then proceeds to prosecute him and send him to jail.

[2:8]And among men there are some who say, .We believe in Allah and in the Last Day., yet they are not believers.

[2:9]They try to deceive Allah and those who believe, while they are not deceiving anyone except themselves, although they are unaware of it.

[2:10]In their hearts there is a malady, so Allah has made them grow in their malady; and for them there is a grievous punishment, because they have been lying.

Read 2:8-10 with some real care Aamir Ali. I suppose Allah is referring to the hypocrites of the prophet's time. Allah claims there is a malady in their hearts because they hypocritically claim to believe in Him while not doing do so.

So what does the Merciful, All-knowing Allah who created the hypocrites the way they are do. He increases their malady. Yet He claims He is All Merciful, All Powerful, Beneficent etc. What is the use of all these qualities if He will not use them for good (the good being merely recoginse His being the only god)? So who really is the Hypocrite here. Allah or the people He accuses of being hypocrites?????

[2:11]When it is said to them, .Do not spread disorder on the earth., they say, .We are but reformers..

[2:12]Beware, it is, in fact, they who spread disorder, but they do not appreciate.

Okay let us see who does not appreciate who is spreading disorder. A dictionary meaning of disorder is ‘a disturbance of the peace, breach of public order'. What did Islam tell Muslims to do during periods when peace prevailed all over Arabia?

[2:217] They ask you about the Sacred Month, that is, about fighting in it. Say, ―Fighting in it is something grave, but it is much more grave, in the sight of Allah, to prevent (people) from the path of Allah, to disbelieve in Him, and in Al-Masjid-ul-Harām, and to expel its people from there, and Fitnah (to create disorder) is more grave than killing.‖ They will go on fighting you until they turn you away from your faith if they could, while

A period when all Arabia was at peace for centuries was shattered with this verse. And what my dear Aamir Ali was the historical context of this verse? It was to legalise an unprovoked raid the prophet ordered in the holy month against a caravan on its peaceful way to Mecca.

So beware. It is Allah who claims He sent Mohamed as a reformer but also went about causing disorder. And it is happening in front your eyes. In the suicide bombings, in Pakistan, in Iraq in places where Muslims live.

[2:13]And when it is said to them, .Believe as people have believed,. they say, .Shall we believe as the fools have believed?. Beware, it is, in fact, they who are the fools, but they do not know.

So who are the fools really and do not know they are fools? It is an easy guess, so no prizes for guessing.

[2:14]When they meet those who believe, they say, .We have entered Faith;. but when they are alone with their satans, they say, .Indeed, we are withwe were only mocking you;

Allah abuses those who do not believe in Him as shaitans.

[2:15] It is Allah who mocks at them, and lets them go on wandering blindly in their rebellion.

Allah refusing to guide disbelievers to the right path. Instead of using His power to guide them He mocks them! Or does He not have the power?

[2:16]These are the people who have bought error at the price of guidance; so their trade has brought no gain, nor have they reached the right Path.

Reading the previous aya the only error they have made is not believing in a god who refuses to guide them despite having the power to do so. Good for them.

[2:17]Their situation is like that of a man who kindles a fire, and when it illuminates everything around him, Allah takes away their lights and leaves them in layers of darkness, so that they see nothing.

What can the poor disbelievers do? Even if they strike up a light to see the truth the All-Powerful Allah takes it away and leaves them in darkness. And then He balmes them for being in the darkness! Par for the course in weird Islamic theological logic.

[2:18]Deaf, dumb and blind, they shall not return.

Allah makes them blind so they cannot see the path by which they can return. He puts out the light of the disbelievers so that they remain in their disbelief.

[2:19] Or (it is) like a rainstorm from the sky, bringing darkness, thunder and lightning; they thrust their fingers in their ears against the thunderclaps for fear of death, ___and Allah encompasses the disbelievers__

Allah missed a great chance to demonstrate His knowledge of science. If He had said lightning and thunder then His slaves could have claimed that Allah is demonstrating His knowledge that light travels faster than sound. The verse seems to be about Allah putting the fear of Allah into the disbelievers. I have seen plenty of believers also covering with fright during thunderstorms.

[2:20]and lightning (all but) snatches away their eyesight; every time a flash gives them light, they walk by it; and when darkness falls upon them, theystand still. And if Allah willed, He would certainly take away their hearing and their eyes: surely Allah is powerful to do anything.

Does lightning blind only the unbelievers. If you believe that statement of the Koran you will believe anything. He has not removed the fear of thunder and lightening from believers despite His boast of being able to do anything.

[2:21]O people, worship your Lord who created you and those before you, so that you may become God-fearing.

[2:22]He is the One who made the earth a bed for you, and the sky a roof, and sent down water from the sky, then brought forth with it fruits, as a provision for you. So, do not set up parallels to Allah when you know.

Here is another ayat that shows that Allah has no clue to what He has created. He says the sky is a roof. He does not realize that there is nothing out there in space except space and bits and pieces of matter scattered around.

[2:23] If you are in doubt about what We have revealed to Our servant, then bring a Surah similar to this, and do call your supporters other than Allah, if you are true.

[2:24]But if you do not It has been prepared for disbelievers.– and you will never be able to – then guard yourselves against the Fire, the fuel of which will be men and stones.

I have told you in my previous post how inane this challenge sounds when He say in 2:24 they will not be able to do so.

[2:25] And give good news to those who believe and do righteous deeds that for them there are gardens beneath which rivers flow. Every time they are given a fruit from there to eat, they will say, .This is what we have been given before.; and they will be given (fruits) resembling one another. And for them there shall be wives purified; and there they will live forever.

A verse giving inducements to believe. What is this about ‘wives purified'? ?Were their wives corrupt before they reached heaven? Or are they being made into virgins all over again? Men in heaven seem suspiciously like Muslim males on earth with their need for corruption-free virgins.

[2:26] Indeed, Allah does not feel shy in citing any parable, be it that of a gnat or of something above it (in meanness). Now, as for those who believe,they know it is the truth from their Lord; while those who disbelieve say, .What could Allah have meant by this parable?. Bythis He lets many go astray, and by this He makes many find guidance. But He does not let anyone go astray thereby except those who are sinful

Confused logic from Allah. He lets those who are sinful go astray. Aren't they the ones He should guide rather than the sinless ones. Where is the need to guide people who are already believers?

[2:27]disorder on the earth - it is these who are the losers.those who break the Covenant of Allah after it has been made binding, and cut off the relations Allah has commanded to be joined, and spread

This verse again exposes Allah's powerlessness. A binding covenant was made and the people He created broke it. Poor Allah, what kind of people did He create?

[[2:29] It is He who created for you all that the earth contains; then He turned to the heavens and made them seven skies— and He is the knower of all things.

Another verse where Allah shows His forgetfulness of the science he used to create the universe. He says He created all the earth contains and THEN went about creating the seven heavens. Maybe future scientists will discover this great truth. But at the moment they can show you with convincing proofs that the earth came billions of years after the rest of the universe was created. Or are there skies that are not visible to us? The heavens and skies being different entities?

>>I am sure that the correct version I have provided can be verified from the link provided and will not be eliminated from my post..You can simply realize how can a simple sentence can change its meaning when it is not quoted with its complete matter..<<

You are assuring me that the Koran translation you follow is the correct one. On what basis can I verify that it is the correct one. The Saudis, the Shias, the Ahmadiyas will dispute its correctness.

Can you now understand that Allah's claim to have preserved the Koran is baseless. He may have preserved it letter for letter in Arabic. But for the vast majority of its believers it is useless unless they can be sure that the translations in their hands is the correct one. Unless this translation of the Koran you are touting is accepted by all, you Aamir Ali, can never be sure that the others who claim to be Muslims are really Muslims.

Can you pick out some aya which have been poorly translated by Yusuf Ali, Pickhtal or Shakir and explain why they are incorrect?

P.S I suggest you read Concerned Buddhist's ‘Hate of Sin' to get a fresh perspective on disbelievers.

Regards and be of good cheer during this Ramadan,

Plato

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