To Curmally: Sound reason and logic for belief. LOL

Submitted by Plato (India), Sep 14, 2007 at 04:56

>>I had outlined what Muslims believe.Belief transcends reason and logic…<<

Your belief in Islam is based on what? Belief. A structure without foundation cannot stand. A cannibal believes that eating another human will add to his strength and vitality. Can you challenge that belief? How will you do it without reason and logic? Your belief tells you to kill for your religion (9:111). Refute this aya without using reason or logic.

History, the educational and intellectual levels of most Muslims demonstrate the damage this belief of Muslims has done to themselves very eloquently.

Because your belief ‘transcends' (more correctly nullifies) reason and logic you see no incongruity in women being denigrated in the Koran and hadith, their being allowed to be scourged for what the husband considers to be misbehaviour, their value reduced to half that of a man. This discrimination is accepted as your belief transcends reason and logic.

You have played a nice word game with reason and avoided doing the same with logic. Even science does not totally trust its reasoning. It accepts that unless they have all the facts they can only give guesstimates. So science does not claim to have impeccable reasoning for all its conclusions.

But logic is another matter. If you did not believe in the correctness of logic would you believe or rather accept that 1+1=2? Does your logic tell you it is 3?

Because belief is more important than reason and logic Muslim universities spend more time splitting hairs over silly Koranic and hadith issues rather than try to understand the universe around us. As has been pointed out there are more books published in a small European country than all the Muslim world together. But since books are all for this world whereas belief is for the other world, Muslims can feel superior to the rest of the unbelieving world.

Muslim intellectual levels can be seen from the published works of scholars. Muslims constitute more than a billion people, yet you will have to search hard to find anything of value. But ‘Islamic' scholars sprout up everywhere a few Muslims live and make the lives of everyone a living hell. For instance: Working women to breast feed men colleagues for them to work together, rapist father-in-law becomes legal husband of raped daughter-in-law, court divorcing a couple because the woman is from a higher strata of society. These are all beautiful examples of what happens when faith supersedes logic and reason.

Since you believe belief is what drives Muslims and not reason and logic on what grounds can you oppose the terrorists? The Koran tells them in no uncertain terms that to kill and be killed for Allah is a guarantee of paradise. It curses and abuses unbelievers in several places. Calls jews pigs and monkeys. You cannot use logic and reason with them as they will throw back your belief, that belief is superior.

You have tried to use reason and logic to prove the fallibility of reason. Why have you made the effort to use reason and logic to prove that reason and logic are not reasonable and logical if you do not have faith in them? And if you think you have proved that then it only goes show to why Muslim thinking is still stuck in the sands of seventh century Arabia.

>>So what I had written to you is not Mox as you call it but deeply thought out. I do not have to defend any religion because it needs no defence least of all mine.<<

Let us think on what you have said. You say you have thought deeply. How can you think without logic and reason? Did the chain of thoughts you had have no connection with one another. If they had did they follow logically one from the other? How did you reach any conclusion without logical connection between thoughts? Curmally, there is no need to think if all you have to use is belief.

Take verse 9:111 for instance. You just believe what it says. You then naturally act on it. You don't subject it to logic and reason. That is what terrorists do. You can see from the videos of beheadings. They hardly ever give you a reason except quote some verses from the Koran. That is what belief unhindered by logic and reason does to people.

>>All I say is respect all faiths. Should you do so, then it makes life very much easier.<<

Since your have reasoned against reason and logic I can't believe you believe that. After what the Koran tells you in 3:85 and 61:9 you need logic and reason to respect all faiths. Please read them. I could not find any context to nullify the strong smell of intolerance they give out. If you are a Muslim you CANNOT respect other faiths.

So Curmally, reason and logic will make life easier, not belief.

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