To Rayes: Why do you avoid answering the questions Oliver has directed at you? Part III

Submitted by Plato (India), Nov 12, 2007 at 11:41

Rayes you wrote to Oliver:

>>The deeply enlightened people recognize this Creator and call Him Allah Almighty. He is not a man because no man can create or make another man. He is not an animal, nor is He a plant. He is neither an idol nor is He a statue of any kind, because none of these things can make itself or create anything else. He is different from all these things, because He is the Maker and Keeper of them all. The maker of anything must be different and greater than the things that he makes.<<

If He is neither this nor that nor anything else for that matter then I would conclude that He is nothing and non-existent.

>>There are various ways to know Allah Almighty and there are many things to tell about Him. The great wonders and impressive marvels of the world are like open books in which we can read about Him. Besides, Allah Almighty comes to our aid through the many Messengers and Revelations He has sent down to humanity. These Messengers and Revelations tell us everything we need to know about our Creator.<<

The basic message of Allah's messengers, especially his favourite one, is that He will toast us in hell if we make obeisance towards anyone or anything else. The Allah revealed by His messengers is a very insecure being and yet is full of pride and bombast about his greatness.

The complete acceptance of the teachings and guidance of our Creator as revealed to all His messengers (‘alaihimus salaam) is the religion of Islam. Islam enjoins faith in the oneness and sovereignty of Allah Almighty, which makes man aware of the meaningfulness of the universe and of his place in it. This belief frees the human being from all fears and superstitions as it makes him conscious of the presence of Allah Almighty, and of his obligation towards Him.

Don't you pray because of your superstitious fear of an imaginary being conjured up by your prophets? Throwing pebbles at the devil during your pilgrimage is superstition of the worst kind. Slaughtering hundreds of thousands of dumb animals in a very painful manner to please this bloodthirsty god is a continuation of the bloody superstitions of the pagans whom Allah despises. Your belief fills you with superstitious fear of a phantom being.

>>This faith must be expressed and tested in action, for faith alone is not enough. Belief in one God requires that we look upon all humanity as one family under the universal omnipotence of the Creator, and Nourisher of all.<<

Rayes I have underlined a sentence which goes against the grain of what the Koran and your Prophet teach. They do not look upon all humanity as one family. Only Muslims are considered part of Allah's family, living in the abode Islam, the others belong to the abode of war (dar al harb).

>> Islam rejects the idea of a chosen people while on the other hand, it approves that belief in the Creator, and doing righteous deeds is the only way to Heaven. Thus, a direct relationship is established with Allah Almighty and without any intercessor at that.<<

Islam has not rejected the idea of a chosen people. Read this ayat: 003.110
YUSUFALI: Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors.

030.045 YUSUFALI: That He may reward those who believe and work righteous deeds, out of his Bounty. For He loves not those who reject Faith.This ayat tells you that Allah loves only believers.

039.065
YUSUFALI: But it has already been revealed to thee,- as it was to those before thee,- "If thou wert to join (gods with Allah), truly fruitless will be thy work (in life), and thou wilt surely be in the ranks of those who lose (all spiritual good)".

This ayat again tells you that Allah considers the vast majority of mankind (idol worshippers, Christians, atheists etc) are not among his chosen people. Only Muslims are, they are ranked differently.

>>Islam is not a new religion. It is, in essence, the same message and guidance which Allah Almighty revealed to all His Prophets, like Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, David, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad peace be upon them (‘alaihimus salaam). But the message which was revealed to Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him (sallAllahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) is Islam in its comprehensive, complete and final form.<<

Your list of prophets includes only the ones seen in a small barren area of the earth. Why does your Koran not give us a few names of prophets Allah sent to the Chinese, Indians, Australian aborigines? Since the Koran claims all knowledge why does it not enlighten us about them?

>>The Qur'aan is the revealed words of Allah Almighty and the basic source of Islamic teachings and Laws. It deals with the basis of creeds, morality, history of humanity, worship, knowledge, wisdom, man's relationship with God, and human relationships in all aspects. <<

One ayat that tells us about a Muslim's relationship with Allah is 9:111:
YUSUFALI: Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

Allah promises in 9:111 that he guarantees paradise if a Muslim kills or gets killed in His cause. The suicide bombers destroying the lives of innocent non-believers are just reinforcing their relationship with Allah.

>>It contains comprehensive teachings of which, can be built sound systems and social justice, economics, politics, legislation, jurisprudence, law and international relations, all of which are important contents of the Qur'aan.<<

That is a very tall claim. The countries most lacking in social justice are those who follow Islamic laws. The politics and economics of Muslim countries is based on exploitation of the already deprived by kings, sheikhs, amir al momins and dictators. Give us any country which is Islamic and can be held up as an example to infidel nations. We have all heard that tired answer: there are no true Islamic countries in the world. Then ask yourself what use is the creed you follow if after 1400 years not one true Islamic state exists?

>>The hadeeth, which contains the teachings, sayings, approvals and actions of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him (sallAllahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) meticulously reported and collected by his devoted companions, explains and elaborates on the Qur'aanic verses.<<

Since you mention the hadith, let me bring up a few interesting ones to show you the kind of Prophet you had.

Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 270:

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

The Prophet said, "Who is ready to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has really hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Muhammad bin Maslama said, "O Allah's Apostle! Do you like me to kill him?" He replied in the affirmative. So, Muhammad bin Maslama went to him (i.e. Ka'b) and said, "This person (i.e. the Prophet) has put us to task and asked us for charity." Ka'b replied, "By Allah, you will get tired of him." Muhammad said to him, "We have followed him, so we dislike to leave him till we see the end of his affair." Muhammad bin Maslama went on talking to him in this way till he got the chance to kill him.

Criticising the prophet of Islam becomes criticism of Allah and the blood of the person is allowed for a Muslim? You consider this encouragement to assassinate for criticism something to be emulated?

Volume 5, Book 59, Number 637:

Narrated Buraida:

The Prophet sent 'Ali to Khalid to bring the Khumus (of the booty) and I hated Ali, and 'Ali had taken a bath (after a sexual act with a slave-girl from the Khumus). I said to Khalid, "Don't you see this (i.e. Ali)?" When we reached the Prophet I mentioned that to him. He said, "O Buraida! Do you hate Ali?" I said, "Yes." He said, "Do you hate him, for he deserves more than that from the Khumlus."

The slave girl was part of the khumus, which means that Ali would have raped her. Not a word of condemnation from your ‘perfect'prophet.

Volume 5, Book 58, Number 188:

Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun:

During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Salim, the freed slave of Abu Hadhaifa, lived with him and his family in their house. She (i. e. the daughter of Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Salim has attained (purbety) [sic] as men attain, and he understands what they understand, and he enters our house freely, I, however, perceive that something (rankles) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa, whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said to her: Suckle him and you would become unlawful for him, and (the rankling) which Abu Hudhaifa feels in his heart will disappear. She returned and said: So I suckled him, and what (was there) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa disappeared. (Sahih Muslim 3425)

The one about monkeys committing illegal sexual intercourse and about a woman suckling an adult man to make him her foster son I found hilarious, and included for your information and comment/explanation.

Arkaanul-Eeman: The Fundamental Articles Of Faith In Islam (The Beliefs).

The true faithful Muslim believes in the following principal articles of faith:

1. Belief in one God (Allah Almighty), Supreme and Eternal, Infinite and Mighty, Merciful and Forgiving, the Creator and the Provider, He begets not, nor was He begotten, and there is none equal or comparable unto Him.

2. Belief in all Messengers of Allah Almighty (Ar-Rusul) without any discrimination among them, as every known nation had a Warner or Messenger from Allah Almighty. They were chosen by Allah Almighty to teach humanity and deliver His Divine message. The Qur'aan mentions the names of some of them, and Muhammad peace be upon him (sallAllahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) stands as the Last Messenger and the crowning glory of the foundation of prophethood.

(Why are only Middle Eastern prophets mentioned in a religion that claims to be universal).

3. Belief in all original scriptures and revelations of Allah Almighty (Al-Kutub), accepting them as the guiding light that the messengers received to show their respective people the right path to Him.In the Qur'aan, special reference is made to the books of Abraham, Moses, David and Jesus (‘alaihimus salaam), but long before the revelation of the Qur'aan to Muhammad peace be upon him (sallAllahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) some of these books and revelations had been lost or corrupted. The only authentic and complete book of Allah Almighty in existence today is the Qur'aan, which has been preserved as it was revealed to Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him (sallAllahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) in its pristine, pure form.

(If these other books were also the word of Allah, how did mere humans manage to corrupt His words? Did Allah not have the foresight to see to it that they were not corrupted or lost? Rayes you have revealed by this claim of Allah waiting till your Arabic Koran was revealed that He is a god with only limited powers. He is incapable of seeing the future. He had to experiment with various scriptures till he found the right one that would not be corrupted or lost.

4. Belief in the Angels (malaa-ikah) of Allah Almighty, recognizing them as spiritually pure and splendid beings whose nature requires no food, drink or sleep. They are honored servants who are assigned certain functions, and spend their days and nights in the worship of Allah Almighty. They do not speak before Allah Almighty does, and they act only by His command.

(Angels are honoured servants?? You have again shown that your Allah has only limited powers. Why does an all-powerful, almighty god require servants to do his bidding. We humans require servants to ease our work load as we are incapable of doing everything ourselves. There is a verse in the Koran which says that all that Allah has to do is say ‘BE'and it is. If He has this power why does He need servants?

The way you describe angels, they sound very much like robots with a programme to keep singing Allah's praises. Why does Allah have such need for praise from lowly creatures he has created. How would you like to have a record player which endlessly repeates ‘Rayes you are the the greatest'. Will it give a boost to your ego?

5. Belief in the Last Day (Yaum Al-Qiyaamah) and the Hereafter (Al-Aakhirah), acknowledging that this world will end someday, and that the dead will rise to stand for their final and fair trial. People with good records will be generously rewarded and warmly welcomed to the Heaven of Allah Almighty, and those with bad records will be punished and cast into Hell and none will be treated with injustice.

(Fair trial?? Allah Himself creates people with different personalities and circumstances. Some He wills to born to very bad parents, some in very poor circumstances, some to idol worshippers and He plays favourites by letting some be born to Muslim parents and in Muslim countries. What kind of fair trial is Allah going to hold?? If there were a higher judge than Allah he would throw out Allah's verdicts as blatantly unfair.

6. Belief in Fate (Qadr), whether good or bad, which Allah Almighty, measured and ordained for all creation according to His previous knowledge, and as deemed suitable by His wisdom. And in the timeless knowledge of Allah Almighty, and in His power to plan and execute His plans, nothing could happen in His Kingdom against His will. His knowledge and power which are always in action command over His creation. He is Wise and Merciful, and whatever he does must have a meaningful purpose. If this is established in our minds and hearts, we should accept with good faith all that He does, although we may fail to understand it fully, or think it is bad.

(How much more confusing can a religion get? What meaning can life hold if one believes in Fate? We are all just puppets in the hands of Allah. He has measured and ordained everything with His foreknowledge. We have no choice in what we do, yet Allah curses and abuses those who do not believe in Him. He seems to forget that He made people the way they are, they have no choice but to be what they are.

This simple logic is one of the most difficult things for believers in Islam to grasp. If you believe your point No. 6 then you are a fatalist. Everything than happens is foreordained, humans have no control over their own selves or anything else for that matter. Allah and his Koran has reduced us to zombies.

>>Faith without action and practice is a dead end as far as Islam is concerned, for faith by nature is very sensitive and can be most influential. When it is out of practice or out of use, it quickly loses its liveliness and motivational power.<<

This is what you said just a few sentences before this: ‘Belief in Fate (Qadr), whether good or bad, which Allah Almighty, measured and ordained for all creation according to His previous knowledge…'

Why are you asking us to have faith when you claim that our fate is foreordained. If I am without faith it is by the will of Allah. I have no power to change His will.

Arkaanul-Islam: The Five Pillars Of Islam (The Actions)

1. Shahadatain (Testimony): To bear witness that there is none worthy of worship except Allah Almighty (The Creator), and that Muhammad peace be upon him (sallAllahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) is His Messenger. Muslims are obliged to follow his exemplary life as a model.

Why does Allah insist on attaching a human's (Mohammed) name to His. It sounds suspiciously as though Allah is in need of assistance from a human.

2. Salaah: Daily prayers are offered five times a day as a duty towards Allah Almighty …..

3. Zakaah (Charity): The literal and simple meaning of Zakaah is purity, while its technical meaning designates the annual amount in kind or cash that a Muslim with means must distribute among the rightful beneficiaries from his yearly net savings. But the religious and spiritual significance of Zakaah is much deeper and more valuable than its humanitarian, and socio-political value.

Rayes, read this verse about Zakaah: 009.060 YUSUFALI: Alms are for the poor and the needy, and those employed to administer the (funds); for those whose hearts have been (recently) reconciled (to Truth); for those in bondage and in debt; in the cause of Allah; and for the wayfarer: (thus is it) ordained by Allah, and Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.
PICKTHAL: The alms are only for the poor and the needy, and those who collect them, and those whose hearts are to be reconciled, and to free the captives and the debtors, and for the cause of Allah, and (for) the wayfarer; a duty imposed by Allah. Allah is Knower, Wise.

The underlined words show that the idea behind Zakaah is not very pure. It looks like it is also to be used to bribe people to accept Islam. You are right when you say that it has socio-political value ie material inducement to people to join your religion.

4. Sawm (Fasting): The Muslims during the month of Ramadhaan do not only abstain from food, drink and sexual intercourse from dawn to sunset but they are also required to refrain from ..

5. Hajj (Pilgrimage to Mecca): It is to be performed once in a lifetime,……. After all, everyone is equal in the sight of Allah Almighty, and so Hajj therefore demonstrates in effect the universality of Islam and the brotherhood and equality of Muslims.

You are not being very honest here, Rayes. If everyone is equal in the sight of Allah why does he call some people najees and keep them out of the kaba? Why don't you admit that Allah considers Muslims superior to people of other religions? He also considers women a degree below men (2:228, 4:34). Also read 3:110
YUSUFALI: Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah….

Your claim that everyone is equal in the sight of Allah is just plain wrong. Allah plays favourites among his creatures.

Since Allah has foreordained everything, including man's actions, Shahadatain, Salah, Zakah, Sawm and Hajj are by the will of Allah. If I do not practice the five pillars it will also be by the will of Allah. Preaching these pillars is a futile exercise.

• THIS IS ISLAM

• THE TRUE WAY FOR SUCCESS

• IN THIS LIFE AND IN THE LIFE HEREAFTER

The image you have presented of Islam is depressing. Allah has decided everything even before the universe was created, including all your and my actions. If you reply to this post, that also would have been decided by Allah before He created the universe.

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