To Hamri: In Mulims human nature trumps the Koran and Allah. Part II

Submitted by Plato (India), Sep 8, 2007 at 01:52

>>Plato. Plato, plato plato. Dude would be disappointed if he knew what you were talking bout. WE've been round and round on this. You dumping quotes left and right on me wont help, ive refued everything youve ever said that is a lie and i dont need to do it anymore.<<

Hamri, quotes from the Koran are dumped on you for the weight they carry with Muslims. You say you have refuted everything but you should have pointed out at least one that you have refuted and in which post. I am waiting.

>>I am a Muslim who believes his Allah as the lord of the worlds and Muhammad (pbuh) as his final prophet, as well as the prophethood of Moses and Jesus.<<

You are more than welcome to whatever you want to believe as long as you don't thrust it on the rest of us.

>>I bear no ill will to Jews or Christians,<<

Good for you Hamri. Your tolerance is appreciated. But can you say the same for your prophet and Allah? Your prophet wanted all the Jews and Christians thrown out of Arabia. He began well by exiling some Jewish tribes and massacring another. His followers continued the tradition.I have quoted an Islamic scholar in part I to prove it.

Your Allah calls the Jews and Christians liars and is going to torture them forever when He gets His hands on them on judgment day. I won't dump the quotes to prove it, you know where to find them in the Koran.

>> further, I personally know of many Muslim, none of which wish any ill will towards non believers.

So do I

>>I know of no Muslim personally who wishes harm on disbelievers.<<

I know many Muslims, some personally who I cannot name for obvious reasons, who hate non-believers and who would like to wipe out Israel and the Jews along with it. Bin Laden, Mullah Omar, Ahmedinejad come to mind from among the known public figures.

>> I am not here to argue the verses of the Quran and their meaning, you and i know both know I have done that.<<

Have we? I forget quickly. Remind me of which ones and the posts they are on. I have six of your posts on Sep 6 and one on Aug 30 and I don't see you arguing the Koran in them.

>>I know in my heart and in my mind that MOST muslims are peaceful.<<

Surprise. Surprise. I know and believe that too.

>>I do not apologize for others actions in the name of Islam. Any violence against innocents is wrong and should be condemned as it has by myself and all Muslims I know. <<

No you need not. But just as we feel ashamed when a parent of ours commits a crime Muslims must feel shame that Islam is a religion that can be so easily used to justify hatred and killings of non-Muslims. Just as we would remonstrate with our erring parent you should with Islam.

>>There is a phrase used in Islam which says "Oh Allah, whatever I have done right I have done in your remembrance and what I have done I have done of my shortcomings" <<

Your Islamic teachers have trained you well. That is a cop out on the part of Allah. He wants on the one hand, to claim responsibility for every thing that happens in the universe, even claiming to know all that you will do or think before He creates you. And then wriggles out of responsibility for evil by saying it is the responsibility of Shaitan and humans. But Allah did let the cat out of the bag once or twice by admitting to be the creator of evil (113:1-2) and that He allowed Shaitan to do his dirty work with His permission (15:32-43, 38:78-85).

Now I am not saying extremists only have small shortcomings, of course the problem is much much more severe, however when someone who really does not know a Muslim community first hand tells me that ALL muslims are either terrorists or apologists, then I have to correct, them because really do you think I dont know Muslims better than you do?

It is a bit like the Stockholm syndrome. When you live in a community and especially if you are a part of it you will sometimes think of even some of its worst failings as virtues. For instance honour killings. How many Saudis, or Afghans or even Pakistanis would consider it wrong. How many north African Muslims consider female circumcision a horrifying mutilation of the female child. Or if you were part of a cannibalistic society would you resist killing and eating of other humans?

Regards ,Plato

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