To Ahmedzafire: So is the Koran just another book that can be interpreted/corrupted?

Submitted by Plato (India), Sep 16, 2007 at 01:51

>>See the reason why i used quotes from the Bible was to let people on this forum know just exactly what you said... that any book can be interpreted wrong<<

You are wrong there, at least in regard to the Koran. Since the Koran claims it is a clear book without any doubt in it, 4:58, 54:52, 5:15, 2:1 etc, it cannot be interpreted wrong. The Koran is a book that has innumerable interpretations by Muslims themselves. You are now saying and admitting that the Koran is just like any other book, and I cannot agree with you more. It is just another book authored by a human being capable of being interpreted in different ways.

>>As for the Koran Muslims believes it speak about past, present and future.<<

So do so many other books. The Bhavishya Purana of the Hindus comes to mind. It is even claimed by Muslims that it prophesies the coming of Mohammed. What do you have to say about this book?

>>My thoughts on it is that each situation is different. Just because I'm a American Muslim ( although i have experienced some basis because of my faith. But many people are scared to say anything they more as question then after answering as you walk away you can here them whispering about you. Not knowing that this Muslim spend 18mos for three years away from his wife and kids to make sure terrorists stay away from my country in which i live. And this is commanded in the Koran.<<

I can see you are a kind of moderate Muslim. You took up arms for a country that is known to attack Muslim countries against the express injunctions of your prophet and Koran. That takes some courage for a believer. Remember the prophet's last sermon where he said ‘every Muslim is a Muslim's brother, and that the Muslims are brethren.' And the Koran says:

YUSUFALI: If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (For ever): And the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him.

During your tour of duty did you have to shoot at Muslims in defence of your country?

Narrated Abu Al-Aswad:

An army unit was being recruited from the people of Medina and my name was written among them. Then I met 'Ikrima, and when I informed him about it, he discouraged me very strongly and said, "Ibn 'Abbas told me that there were some Muslims who were with the pagans to increase their number against Allah's Apostle (and the Muslim army) so arrows (from the Muslim army) would hit one of them and kill him or a Muslim would strike him (with his sword) and kill him. So Allah revealed:--

YUSUFALI: When angels take the souls of those who die in sin against their souls, they say: "In what (plight) Were ye?" They reply: "Weak and oppressed Were we in the earth." They say: "Was not the earth of Allah spacious enough for you to move yourselves away (From evil)?" Such men will find their abode in Hell,- What an evil refuge! –

Ahmedzafire this verse, 4:97 is especially meant for people in your position. You are expected to move away from your country if you fear you will have to kill Muslims otherwise you might die in sin against your soul. You, of course, have the consolation that the people of Iraq, Afghanistan, or Pakistan are not true Muslims as they have misinterpreted the Koran.

>>Sorry lost track!!!...lol But back to what I was saying that we all don't know too much of what really goes on in the other side. See with Islam the Koran is for Muslims to follow as it tell you how to live your life and to warns to stay away from things they are negative. <<

The Koran has warned about the negative thing you did when you joined an army in dar al harb. Why did you do that?

>>Muslims are also told to believe in the bible and read it but to beware of the corrupted verses.<<

How do you decide which the corrupted verses are. If you do not know which verses are corrupted how can you beware of them?

>> The Koran is not a replacement for the bible, because the bible tells the gospels or (the Ingel) which are stories about Jesus/Is'ha(pbuh) the Koran mention Christ(pbuh) many,many times but don't just have stories on him because Christ came during his time and era to remind the Israelites to stay on the true path.<<

I have no idea of what you are saying here. If the Koran is not a replacement of the Bible why was it revealed? And Allah says his words cannot be changed (except by himself of course) so the Bible getting corrupted is a contradiction of His claim. Is the Koran an addendum to the torah and the bible?

>>And Mohammad(pbuh) was giving the Koran to lead the world to the guidance of Allah and the Prophets(pbuh) that came before him .<<

Allah's previous words the Torah and the Bible did not did not lead the world to guidance. What makes you sure that the Koran will. If we observe the Islamic world then the Koran has done more to misguide the followers of this last revelation than guide them to be good humans. You have admitted as much by saying that any book can be misinterpreted.

>>Many Christians will agree with me on that because the bible has been changed over and over again. But I do believe in the bible because its G-d's gift to the world...I wouldn't be Muslim if I didn't. (just to respond to Susan comment)<<

Such mangled logic! You say the bible has been changed over and over again i.e. humans changed the Almighty Allah's words and yet you believe in it with all its corruptions. And if it is God's gift then by your own admission human beings have managed to thoroughly mess it up with all the changes introduced.

>>Yes, I agree Muslims, not Islam have to change because Islam is universal and can coexist in modern times. There are millions of Muslims that do.<<

Islam can co-exist with other religions? Then it is not Islam. The Koran itself says that no religion other than Islam is acceptable to the Almighty allah, 3:85. Or read 61:9 Ahmedzafire as long as Muslims accept these verses they cannot co-exist with others. So Islam has to change not the Muslims you think have not understood the Koran.

>>But the other half that don't believe so then I feel that they are full believers of their faith. Because Allah says Islam is for all man and time. Meaning Islam is flexible to changes.<<

I can't figure out what it is you are trying to say. But I will respond to what I have understood. If Allah says Islam is for all men and all time then the present situation of Islam goes to show that Allah's words have no power. The vast majority of mankind is still unbelieving. His words have not taken effect for more than 1400 years. Most Muslims don't want Islam to be flexible as they want to go back to seventh century governance believing it to be some kind of golden age.

And what a golden age it was!!! The golden era, if you remember, consisted of the rightly guided Caliphs who got murdered by Muslims, indulged in the ridda wars, had Ayesha's going to war against Ali, the blood that was spilled in trying to spread Islam and the sad story of the Prophet's grandchildren being murdered, again by Muslims. You want the rest of the world to go back to this golden age?

>>Just as I and million other Muslims that live in modern society can still preform all Islamic prayer,holidays and more. We are just as Muslims as they are or more.<<

You have the good fortune to live in dar al harb where despite the name Islam has given it, it is an abode of peace compared to dar al Islam. That is why you can perform Islamic prayers and observe Islamic holidays. In the house of peace your opposite numbers have great difficulties in doing what you do. They can even get killed in your prophet's house of peace for what you happily enjoy in the house of war.

>>( THIS IS FOR PEOPLE IN GENERAL) Please read what I'm saying and not twist it around. If you don't understand please say so and I'll try to make it clearer for you. Thanks.<<

If you think I have twisted here (twisting is another escape route like out of context, mistranslation, misunderstanding) please make clear to me where I have done that.

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