Mohammad: Don't be in denial. Bring your proof, as the Koran says.

Submitted by Plato (India), Aug 2, 2008 at 08:30

Mohammad, you wrote:

>>I read your Quotes from Holy Quran.I don't enter into Controversy.<<

I can understand your fear of entering into controversy about Islam as it specifically forbids it in 40:4, 40:35. But by just posting your reply you have entered into the controversy that is Islam in right earnest.

Islam has been controversial from day one. It began life by attacking both physically and in words those who refused to believe in its Allah (i.e. Muhammad) who is bent on violence against those who refuse to accept his overlordship.

>>When any Tyranny or Oppressor attacks you and wanted to kill you, your Family, take away your Properties, your Land, destroy your House, it is your Human Right to rise & fight against such Oppressor or Invador with All your Mights & Power.

This is the Universal Human Rights & accepted by All Nations under UNO.<<

When the Muslims of seventh century Arabia burst out of their desert and attacked (and took booty which included women and children) not just neighbouring countries but far away lands which had not even heard of them (Egypt, Spain, India…) whose human rights were they defending?

Is the abhorrent practice of keeping slaves, allowed by Islam, a Universal Muslim Right? Is keeping concubines a Universal Male Muslim Right? The Koran does not prohibit any of these jahilia practices.

>>What you have learned from Holy Quran, this is in Extreme Situation of Life and Necessity and also Survival.<<

Really? Read my comment just before this. What extreme situation of life prompted the Prophet's immediate followers to attack Coptic Egypt, Christian Spain and Pagan India? Were their attacks on far off lands necessary for the Arabs' survival?

The Koran and Muslims justify attacks on the Qureish on the false plea that they were robbed and driven out of Mecca. Did the Copts attack the Muslims? Did the Hindus ever attack them?

>>You must differentiate between a Terrorist and a Muslim. You must understand that Muslims are NOT Terrorists and Terrorists are NOT Muslims.<<

Proclaiming the shahada is the absolute must-fulfill condition to be a Muslim. All the Muslims who terrorise the world at large proclaim the shahada again and again in their videos, emails and websites. Can you tell us unequivocally that a person who sincerely intones the shahada is not a muslim ? When Bin laden and the Muslim suicide bombers proclaim "La illaha ill Allah, Muhammadur Rasul Allah" are they not sincere in what they say?? If yes, then those Muslims are terrorists. If no, then why are there so much admiration and support of Bin Laden and his types in the Muslim world?

>>Siucide Bombers are not Muslims either.<<

So what are they? Buddhists, Christians, Sikhs, atheists?? Can you name the community to which they belong?

>>You must read Whole Quran. By Quoting a Part of a Verse will not help you to understand Holy Quran.<<

Would you care to tell us how reading the whole Koran will show us that the Koran means something other than what the words of the verse say in what Bestely has quoted: ‘[4.76] Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Satan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Satan;surely the strategy of the Satan is weak.

8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve.Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

[48.29] Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.

In 4:76 Allah informs you that disbelievers are followers of Satan. In 8:12 Allah tells you that he will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve and asks believers to decapitate them.

Just disbelief is sufficient reason for Allah to terrorise disbelievers and encourage Muslims to chop off their heads. Muslims of course come up with the time-worn excuse that these are meant only for war times. But where in the Koran is there any indication of this? One has to search the sira and hadith written generations after it to get some clue of their war time context.

Will reading the whole Koran reveal to us that it is not really telling us that women can be scourged if men suspect they are being disobedient?

If I were a Muslim I would rather go with the direct commands given in the Koran (fight the friends of Satan, strike off their heads, be ruthless to the unbelievers) rather than search for the context in the hadith and sira in the hope that it will reveal some clue that abrogates the meaning of the Koran's words.

>>If you are a Belieber and read the Holy Quran without any Prejudices, your Own Conscience will dectate you which is Right & which is not.<<

You are so right Mr. Mohammed. Bin Laden and his cohorts, the suicide bombers and their instigators all seem to have read the Koran and believed what it told them to do. Their consciences would have been clear when they went about killing unbelievers because the Koran is a clear book and verses like 4:76, 8:12 and 48:29 give them instructions on how to conduct themselves with the kuffar.

>>Muslims can NEVER,EVER kill any Persons including Jews & Chistians. In fact, True Believers among Jews & Chistians are the People who follow the Guidance of God- Allah.<<

How then will Muslims implement this verse of the almighty Allah: 061.009
YUSUFALI: It is He Who has sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth, that he may proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it). (Pikthal says ‘conqueror' and Shakir says ‘overcome' instead of ‘proclaim')

The Koran itself admits the Pagans will detest Islam or be averse to its imposition. How will Muslims proclaim (overcome/conquer) Islam over the pagans without holding a sword over their throat. By bribing them?

How will you explain 9:29 which specifically instructs Muslims to: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (Yusuf Ali)

Is this verse meant only for people of the Book and pagans of the prophet's time and present day Muslims should ignore it? If so how will you explain the fact that jiziya was collected from unbelievers for more than a thousand years?

>>If you do believe the Holy Quran is NOT a Book from God- Allah, the True , well educated & well informed Muslims have NO Problem with you or other people.<<

The well-educated Muslims, if they remain true to their faith, will sweep the dirt they see in their religion under the carpet by trying to lamely insist that the Koran is misinterpreted, mistranslated, and quoted out of context.

The well-informed Muslims, if they remain true to their religion, will try and implement the orders contained in 4:76, 8:12 and 48:29

>>You live with your Faith, we Muslims live of our Faith, Unconditional & Absolute Faith in ONE GOD- ALLAH.<<

Muhammad, tell us how you arrived at the unconditional and absolute faith in Allah. Is a book which contains words handed down fourth hand to you (Allah to Gabriel to Muhammad to the compilers of the Koran who collected it from leaves and barks and bone and human memory) sufficient for you to place absolute faith in Allah? If you are typical of other Muslims then it explains a lot of what is wrong with the Muslim world.

>>Allah is the Greatest Wtness between You & Muslims.<<

??? No about it. He is the Greatest and He see all

>>You will know One Day who was Right. Let God- Allah guide you with True Wisdom & Knowledge. ...<<

Judgment Day is a figment of Muhammad's imagination. I may not ever know what was right but I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that Islam is a false religion. It could not be otherwise. A large number of verses are meaningless unless read in context of which the Koran does not give a clue. Some verses are there only to condone the Prophet's unethical/immoral acts (Marriage to Zaynab for instance).

If Allah's wisdom and guidance in 4:76, 8:12 and 48:29 is anything to go by then Satan save us from this Allah.

>>Remember: Knowledge is Power & Ignorance is Death.<<

Mohammed, true knowledge of what the Koran is really saying leads the suicide bombers and their victims to death.

Throughout your post you have done nothing but just deny the points raised by Bestley. He has substantiated what he has said, you have not. That is because you are in denial, a mental state instilled in Muslims by the Koran. Read 40:4 and 40:35 once more for proof.

Regards

Plato

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