Mohammad: Bring your proof as Koran says

Submitted by Plato (India), Aug 9, 2008 at 07:08

Mohammad, you wrote:

>>This Forum for Open Discussion has been organized by the Intellectual like Mr. Daniel Pipes. We thank him for this Forum.

The users of this Forum are expected to use the Boundary of Civilized manners, Ettiquetes & Free expression of thoughts, which will bring Peace, Harmony & Good Understanding among the Readers of this Forum.<<

Mohammed you should have given some examples of how I have crossed the "Boundary of Civilized manners, Ettiquetes & Free expression of thoughts" and disturbed the "Harmony & Good Understanding among the Readers of this Forum".

>>People like Plato ( a disguise name, without disclosing his real identity) has crossed Human Rights, Decencies in his approach to other people, their Religion, their Holy Book & the Greatest Prophet in Human History.<<

Do I have to tell you what happens to people who criticize your prophet Mr. Mohammad?

Muslims have the luxury of being able to abuse other religions (taking their cue from the Koran and the Prophet) without anything happening to them but the sword of Islam hangs over anyone daring to assay even mild criticism of it (Kab bin Ashraf, Asma bint Marwan, The Danish cartoonists, Farag Foda, Salman Rushdie, Theo van Gogh, Taslima Nasrin, Naguib Magdi….)

Please explain to me how criticism of a religion and its founder affect human rights. If what you say is true then your prophet was one of the first persons to criticse other religions. He began his career by denigrating the practices and holy idols of the Meccans. He not only abused human rights but also took human lives to impose his religion. What was decent about the Prophets approach to the Quresh?

>>Plato is very Hostile to Holy Quran , the Prophet of Islam and 1.50 Billion Muslims.<<

The Koran and the Prophet proclaim that the 5 billion or so of non-Muslims are blind, deaf, dumb and without sense and are the worst of beasts (8:55). They also claim that we are najees and are prohibited from entering your holy places on that account (9:28).The prophet and his Allah tell Muslims that they must be harsh on unbelievers (48:29), that they should shun even their parents or children if they are not Muslims (58:22).

The hostility that the Koran (and the Prophet) shows towards the non-Muslims, 4.5 billion of them, is far worse than anything I have written. Please read your Koran with a little more care and you will realize what I have said is true.

>>Plato is writing in the Most indignified way against the very Holy Quran & the Prophet of Islam. Your Attack on the Holy Quran & the Prophet of Islam has exceeded the Hostality of Adolf Hitler. You are worse than Hitler.<<

If you heap indignities on anyone you should expect similar treatment at their hands. The Holy Koran and the Prophet did just that. Read: 9:28, 18:29, 63:4

>>You have no Respect for the Holy Quran & Prophet Muhammad.<<

Will you respect anyone who constantly curses and abuses you and threatens to treat you in the most ‘indignified' way when he gets his hands on you?

>>You are Totally Ignorant about the Holy Quran & Prophet Mumammad (peace be upon him from God- Allah).<<

How did you come to that conclusion? What is your reasoning?

>>Have you EVER read the World famous Book- "THE 100- A RANKING OF THE MOST INFLUENTIAL PERSONS IN HISTORY" by American writer, Michael Hart? He has placed Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as the Greatest Political & Religious Leader in the Human History.<<

I have read his ranking. He trained as astrophyscist. Now he writes on history. I found this on an Islamic site. Please read the extracts below:

…But even these enormous conquests-which were made under the leadership of Muhammad's close friends and immediate successors, Abu Bakr and 'Umar ibn al-Khattab -did not mark the end of the Arab advance. By 711, the Arab armies had swept completely across North Africa to the Atlantic Ocean There they turned north and, crossing the Strait of Gibraltar, overwhelmed the Visigothic kingdom in Spain.

For a while, it must have seemed that the Moslems would overwhelm all of Christian Europe. However, in 732, at the famous Battle of Tours, a Moslem army, which had advanced into the center of France, was at last defeated by the Franks. Nevertheless, in a scant century of fighting, these Bedouin tribesmen, inspired by the word of the Prophet, had carved out an empire stretching from the borders of India to the Atlantic Ocean-the largest empire that the world had yet seen. And everywhere that the armies conquered, large-scale conversion to the new faith eventually followed….

…Moreover, he is the author of the Moslem holy scriptures, the Koran, a collection of certain of Muhammad's insights that he believed had been directly revealed to him by Allah. Most of these utterances were copied more or less faithfully during Muhammad's lifetime and were collected together in authoritative form not long after his death. The Koran therefore, closely represents Muhammad's ideas and teachings and to a considerable extent his exact words….

….In fact, as the driving force behind the Arab conquests, he may well rank as the most influential political leader of all time. …

…Nothing similar had occurred before Muhammad, and there is no reason to believe that the conquests would have been achieved without him. The only comparable conquests in human history are those of the Mongols in the thirteenth century, which were primarily due to the influence of Genghis Khan…. (http://www.jamaat.net/hart/thetop100.html)...

The picture Hart draws of Muhammad is not flattering for a religious leader. The author says his greatness depended to a large extent on his being an inspiration for world conquest. He inspired not only large scale conquest but also large scale conversion. The author also blasphemes by stating that the Koran represents Muhammad's ideas and teachings (it should be the other way around, should it not?). He also says the Koran largely represents his i.e. Muhammad's exact words!!!

In your excitement at Muhammad being ranked numero uno on some criteria of the author's choosing you forgot to look at what the criteria were

The comparison Hart draws between Muhammad and Genghis Khan cannot be flattering. It is the same Genghis Khan who devastated the Muslim empire precipitating Islam's free-fall into the degradation we see today.

>>Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was not a King but the Last Prophet of God- Allah. He has not introduced any New Religion in the World but has reestablished the Religion of Great, Great Prophet Abraham ( Ibrahimin Arabic) (pbuh).<<

This an example of what some posters on this forum refer to as Islamic gobblydegook.

>>Prophet Abraham (pbuh) is not only a Great, Great Prpphet to Islam, he is a Great, Great Phophet to All Jews & Christians.<<

Why does Allah send great, great prophets only to Jews, Christians, and Arabs?

>>In fact, Judaism, Christanity & Islam are the Same Religion from the Same God (God is an English word) and the Same Allah ( Allah is an arabic word). All these Three Religions have the Same Faith in One God- Allah, Same Tradition & same Prctices of Prophet Abraham (pbuh). The People of these Three Religions are the Decendents of Prophet Abraham (pbuh). We are the People of Prophet Abraham (pbuh) and we are very Proud for this.<<

Muslims, especially Arab Muslims, then must consider themselves cousins of the Jews of Israel. Why then are Muslims bitterly opposed to sharing a tiny corner of the vast lands of the Middle East? After all they have first claim to a large portion as the Jews were the first progeny of Abraham and lived in Israel (present day Palestine) before being dispersed by the Romans, Christians and Muslims.

The most wars and atrocities have been committed by these three cousins against each other. Has this not made you question the ‘great, great religion' this ‘great great prophet' has left you? I, for one would be deeply ashamed to admit to such a forefather.

>>Do you want to see a few Examples? 1. All these Three Religions believe on ONE GOD- ONE ALLAH Only. 2. All these people wear a Cap over their Head as a Common Symbol of Faith. This is the Tradition of All Prophets of God - Allah. Even the Great Pope wears a Cap over his head. All Priests, Preachers, Rabbis & Imams of th Synnagoles, Churches & Mosques wear a Cap. 3. All Jews, Christians & Muslim Males go for Circumcisn as part of the Tradition of Prophet Abrahim (pbuh). There are many more Ciommon Traditions.<<

??? What does having common traditions got to do with our discussion? More Islamic gobbledygook?

>>And you are ridiculing the Holy Quran & the Prohet of Islam.<<

What will you say of a book that claims to be god's word and contains statements that say it has statements in it that are allegorical but leaves no clue to which they are? What about statements that some sentences cancel out others? What about funny science like the sun setting in a muddy pool or the existence of an impenetrable barrier between plain and salt water or sperm emerging from near the backbone? You tell us Mohammad.

What will you think of a person who tells you that one wing of a fly has a disease and the other its cure? Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 537: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said "If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease."

What about a person who says that if a grown woman suckles a grown man then there is no harm and they become like mother and son and can be alone together?: Muslim Book 008, Number 3425:

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Salim, the freed slave of Abu Hadhaifa, lived with him and his family in their house. She (i. e. the daughter of Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Salim has attained (purbety) as men attain, and he understands what they understand, and he enters our house freely, I, however, perceive that something (rankles) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa, whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said to her: Suckle him and you would become unlawful for him, and (the rankling) which Abu Hudhaifa feels in his heart will disappear. She returned and said: So I suckled him, and what (was there) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa disappeared

>>If you don't like or hate the Holy Quran, Islam, Muslims & their Prophet, you have no Rights to criticise, redicule & blasphem them. Let you live in your World, let Others live in their World. You have NO Business in their Business.<<

An infidel like me has no interest interfering in your religion or denigrating it UNLESS that is what your religion and its followers do to mine. Just a matter of tit for tat. Islam hates other religions, especially that of polytheists and makes no bones about it . The Koran denigrates the sacred idols of polytheists. Islam ridicules and blasphemes other religions and their followers.

I am not quoting anything on Allah's opinion about other religions' holy symbols because as a Muslim it must have been drilled daily into you at your madrassa. (If by chance you are unaware, ask and I will point you to them).

>>You are Hostile to Islam, Holy Quran & their Prophet. You should make a self Criticism of your Wrong Doing to other Religions. You need to see & visit some Civilized Web Sites of the World like National geograghic. com, Time magazine, Newsweek Magazine, CNN etc.<<

Mohammad my hostility, if you can call it that, is as nothing compared to the Koran and the Prophet's hostility towards kaffirs like me. I have given you sufficient examples above.

>>You can visit : www.submission.ws , www.islamtomorrow.com , www.islamalways.com , www.wikipedia.org , www.arabnews.com www.tomcruise.com , www.muslimsafetyforum.org , www.aiislam.org , www.islamcity.com , www.youtube.com/watch , www.alislam.org<<

The first link leads to a ‘submitter's site. Are you one? I hope you are aware that Rashad Khalifa was murdered by other Muslims for daring to re-interpret the Koran.

>>I can give many, many more Webe sites but you will NEVER, EVER learn any thing about the Holy Quran, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) because you have got Hates against Islam & Muslims. You are Blind in your Knowledge even having your Eyes, you are Dumb even with Ears. So You will NEVER, EVER have Good Grace for the Holy Quran & its Prophet.<<

You have just paraphrased the Koran: 2:17-18 SHAKIR: Their parable is like the parable of one who kindled a fire but when it had illumined all around him, Allah took away their light, and left them in utter darkness-- they do not see. Deaf, dumb (and) blind, so they will not turn back.

>>If you hate the Holy Quran & our Great Prophet Mumammad (pbuh), you can NEVER, EVER misguide 1.50 Billion Muslims by your False & Fabricated Writings in this Web site.<<

Show me what I have fabricated and what is false in what I have written. As the Koran asks: 2:111 …Say: Bring your proof (of what ye state) if ye are truthful.

>>I know this Web site is operated by an Intellectual person, Dr. Daniel Pipes and it is his Duty - A Dignified Right & Duty for him to ban this man Plato from writing the Baseless & Indecent issues against any Religion based on Human Rights declaration by UNO Human Rights Committee.<<

Mohammed, let me paraphrase 2:111 in reply: And you say: Plato has committed human rights violations against Muslims by his writings on this forum. Plato demands: Bring proof of your charge IF YOU ARE TRUTHFUL.

>>I don't want to hear any thig from Plato, a man in disgiuse, who can NEVER be a Jew or a Christian but a man from Dark area of Human life, who has NO Respect for other people & their Faith. I don't count them. I have no concern for their Blind Cricicism.<<

This man in disguise may not be a Jew or a Christian. Then how about an apostate or atheist?

Mohammad you should give an example of my blind criticism instead of making the same accusation in every other sentence.

Regards

Plato

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