not banning the burkha is an insult to the people Islamists pretend to integrate with

Submitted by the Grand Infidel of Kafiristan (Australia), Sep 3, 2009 at 07:17

Mr. Iftikhar writing from the UK (and , surprisingly , not the Islamic paradise he grew up in ) states:

"I have seen western educated Muslim women are in Burqa while their mothers never even covered their heads in Pakistan. "
So you think they are making a political statement - or they don't like their mothers or...? And what is your definition of 'education' Someone who left school in 6th grade would be western educated wouldn't they - so you'll have to be more clear about the point you are trying to make.

"I do not know whether it is due to western education or because they find themselves victim of racism. "
You mean Bertrand Russel , the English philosopher, logician, mathematician, historian and religious skeptic, don't you?

"....According to Lord Burtend Russell, western education makes a man stupid and selfish.

And according to me - Westerrn education has produced virtually everything you see and use in your day to day life.

But I'm glad you appreciate the insight that great figures in English society have had . According to the rather more illustrious Sir Winston Churchill - and at the risk of boring readers by repeating this famous paragraph,:

""How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries, improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. .........,"

"The credit crunch in the world is due to the policies of blue eyed western educated elites. "
Now, now, let's not discriminate and forget to inlcude the brown-eyed oriental educated and uneducated elites

"British scho oling is also in a mess because of such western educated elites."
here, here - nothing that vigourous, repeated , good stiff thrashings with the cane won't fix.....Bring back the madrassas - that's what I say...... hours on end studying the little green book - it's good discipline that they need I tell you!

"...Burqa is not locking women, "

Actually it is blocking women from vitamin D creation. Several studies have shown this now. People with dark skins take longer to synthesise Vitamin D from exposure to sunlight. So non-white Muslims , especially those who have moved to higher latitudes such as Europe should take care to expose themselves to healthy does of solar radiation - and get a bit of fresh air to boot.

'it is a buffer line between protecting chasity and exposing. "

Ah, what a pity you weren't born in the 1870's - Queen Victoria would have been proud of you. You'd have felt right at home - even table legs were covered at times - lest the most base urges of Victorian males were awakened.

"........Being naked and drunk is acceptable but being covered and modest is inhuman."

I'm glad you think so, I was beginning to think you were a complete wowser, a religious nut.

".....French president wants Muslim women to be topless like his wife who posed topless in fashion shows. "

Did he say that? Well, you know what the french are like ...But actually I hadn't heard that report . Perhaps you can give us a link to it?

"He has no right to ban the burqa because it is undemocratic and an unqualified attack on individual freedom. "

Sounds like crocodile tears. Unqualified attack on individual freedom?? You mean like:

http://islammonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2719&Itemid=95

http://www.realcourage.org/2009/09/pakistan-six-christians-shot-dead/

http://www.aina.org/news/20090831182120.htm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090901/lf_afp/malifamilywomenreligionislam_20090901161844

http://www.persecution.org/suffering/newssummpopup.php?newscode=10769&PHPSESSID=2e29113718bec785f2919ac3592116dc

"Burqa is not just a piece of cloth but a lot of ideological and cultural connotation to it. "

Ah - so it IS a political statement then - an in your face, I'm-a-Muslim-and-you're-not sort of thing?

"Women are just being exploited in the name of rights. Burqa protects women's rights and treat each women like a princess. "

Could also be seen as enhancing the delusion that females are property.

"No one has the right to ban the freedom of choice in a secular and democratic country. "

But underneath we don't like secular and democratic countries, do we,? Don't we secretly want it to be all Muslim and under sharia?? And if we can't get that - then we're still going to tell the Infidels what they can and cannot wear once we assume numerical superiority aren't we?

"The right to choice is a basic fundamental right the person should have."

Good point. So what has happened to the freedom of choice and rights of the individuals in most Islamic countries. What happens if they publicly declare they've had a gutfull of Islam and are leaving? Or that they've decided that they're gay? Or that they want to to convert to Christianity - or Judaism? Or publicly state that , having taken everything into account - Mohammed was not a prophet. Or get pissed on a Friday night - causing no harm to anybody else? As you say - "The right to choice is a basic fundamental right the person should have.

Or do you actually mean just a very, very narrow band of choices which you and your co-religionists agree with?

".... French president's interpretation of burqa as a symbol of subservience is false."

That is your opinion - a value judgement but you are stating it as if it is fact. I totally agree with the french president in this case. Can you prove he is wrong???

".....It is a usual habit of western ideologists to twist history and distort the facts inorder to project their culture as superior one. "

and the superior culture would be... let's see - the Arab one, the Pakistani one...??

If you were an honest person - you would drop your hubris and admit that in spite of its faults - Western culture does offer more to individuals than Islamic cultures do. Why are there no long queues of people wishing to emigrate to Islamic countries -? And why so long queues of people from Islamic countries wishing to emigrate to the West?

"....The president should be criminally tried for spreading such falsehood. d Christians"

And while you're at it - you should criminally try the publishers of the Koran for spreading falsehoods and vilifying Jews and Christians and in general instigating hate crimes..

".....To veil or not to veil should be an individual choice. Dress codes are for children, not for adults. Government legislated dress codes for the Taliban religious policy not western democracies. Women should be free to wear burqas. If women can get away with wearing cropped shirts and pants that show their panties, they should be able to waer burqas too."

hey, hold on there - let's not discriminate - men should be free to wear burkhas too.

So is it OK if I - a male started wearing a burkha or niqab - and wandered throughone of my city's Islamic areas? It would be a little odd - granted (and more than masochistic in summer). But it would be OK? No one should have any objections? But I think we both know that people would take exception to it. Why would that be? It's not a religious symbol - so no one should have any just cause to object. But they would. There would be a reaction - hopefully not as severe as the reactions caused by the Danish comics - but there would be a reaction. But there shouldn't be should there - after all you've just told us that "to veil or not to veil should be an individual choice. Dress codes are for children, not for adults."

"One Muslim woman, Caroline Chaiima, writing in Lepoint.fr, said she wore a veil: "Let those most closely concerned speak. I am a French woman born in France, with French parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, and I am a Muslim. I wear the full veil and I feel like saying: So what? I am happy behind the veil, I protect myself from depraved stares. Neither my father, nor my brother, nor my husband forced the full veil upon me; it's a personal choice."

But without making too long a bow it would be entirely possible for a ficititious Roderick Denholm to say in the future ' I am an English man born in England, with English parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, and I am (or am not a Muslim). I wear the niqab and I feel like saying: So what? I am happy behind the veil, I protect myself from depraved stares. I am able to rob banks and rob people with less chance of being caught. Neither my father, nor my brother, nor my husband forced the niqabupon me; it's a personal choice.

The bottom line is the safety and security of society as a whole far overrides personal egos' desires to make a politico-religious point - especially when that statement requires wearing of garb that has never been a part of the host culture.

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