European vacation?

Submitted by the Grand Infidel of Kafiristan (Australia), Oct 6, 2009 at 16:58

Amina writes:

"..You must learn to separate the politics from the religion."
Amina, have you suggested that to Muslims living overseas? Unfortunately - Islam itself does not do that . I'm sure both Dhimmi and Plato completely understand the necessity of separating religions from politics and government. Your mistake is to interpret strong criticism as hatred. I've yet to see Plato make a statement that could remotely be construed as being hateful. Like Geert Wilders - he just plays back the Koran to Muslims - and asks for a reasonable and logical explantion. In doing so - he points out many of its absurdities.

Dhimmi takes another tack - and as a fluent Arabic speaker points out the many and varied inconsistencies in the Koran. While more vociferous than Plato in some respects - he has not descended to anywhere near the levels of the likes of 'Bilal' and 'Mansoor' on this forum - who publicly state they want to see Infidels (non-Muslims) exterminated etc etc

"Islam is one of the 3 Abrahamic religions, of which the other 2 are Christianity and Judaism."
The most they have in common is that they all originated from the same general geographic area - but all three were initiated at completely different time periods - under completely different circumstances. Both Christianity and Judaism do not and will not ever recognise Mohammed as being a prophet. The Mormons for example call themselves Christians. Their 'prophet' Joseph Smith, while living in the USA found 2 tablets and (like Mohammed) claimed he was visited by an angel and concocted a fabulous story of Christ's visit to the Americas and various 'Israelite' civilizations living in what is now mainland USA. Unfortunately for him, these large civilisations left absolutely no archaelogical traces - no stories handed down to Native Americans that could tend to verify his claims . Yet still the Mormons continue to believe these things - and the Mormon church still grows. Non-Mormon Christians in general think the Mormons are deluded.

This has many parallels with Mohammed and his Koran and Hadiths with it's tales of 'buraqs', talking donkeys, Jews hiding under rocks in fear of Muslims seeking to kill them , 53 year old men sleeping with 9 year old girls - night after night etc etc etc

" Each of these 3 monotheistic religions believe in the one and the same God and are built on many of the same foundations. "
Hindus believe in Brahma as well - so do they count? Muslims do not believe the central tenets of Christianity.

"Allah is merely the term for God in Arabic because that is the language of the Qur'an, but it refers to the same entity in all 3 religions. That is something everybody knows, be they Muslim, Jewish or Christian. "
If this is something everyone knows - then why are so many Muslims world wide missing the point? Why is Islam purported to be the Supreme Religion? Who told them that?

'There is no such mention of it in the entire Qur'an. In fact, I grew up with my father telling me that I am Jewish because I believe in Moses, and I am Christian because I believe in Jesus Christ, but lastly I am Muslim because I believe in Prophet Mohammed. '

What do you mean you 'believe in Jesus' ? One of the central tenets of Christianity is that Christ was so supremely conscious that he was able to raise himself from the dead. Do you believe that?

"I am genuinely concerned that you define a "good Muslim" as someone who is full of hate."
I think what you'll find is being suggested is that people who are overly focussed on the teachings of the Koran are easily twisted into committing heinous and barbaric acts in the name of that 'religion'. You would see them as misunderstanders of Islam. They would see you as a misunderstander of Islam

"This is the point I have been stressing while you were busy mistaking "Muslim" for "Islamist extremist".

'Moderate' Muslims are not the issue. The small percentage but large number of Muslims (who are extremists) are willing and increasingly able to wreak havoc on a civilisation they despise. (i.e. Dar al Harb)

"What you have to realize is that an Islamist extremist will not agree with me just as s/he will not agree with you, because s/he believes there is only 1 way of practicing Islam and that is his/her way. This is not Islam, "

Exactly. It doesn't matter what you call it. And what is the one common denominator between your good self and those people? The Koran and its ability to be twisted into whatever people want to twist it into.

"It is a twisted dictatorship over religious expression (yes that term you don't understand where one is barred from practicing freely what one believes) and I abhor that as well.. even if we are of the same religion. "

Well, living in Australia and presumably having been brought up here - of course you're going to say that - and it is the right thing to say. But you are one of a very few in actual numbers - a Western educated Muslim, having absorbed the values of the mainstream Judeo-Christian culture, living in a generally well-governed and highly stable democracy, have access to a fair legal system, excellent education, great health care and not subject to discrimination as a woman etc etc. You must be perfectly aware that yours is a privileged position in relation to the lives of women in most Muslim countries.

Yet in these countries - they would call your version of Islam a distortion of the truth and say you held views that verged on apostasy.

"It is the extremists who proliferate false teachings and propaganda in an attempt to brainwash fools and desperates."

Yes - but what are you or any other 'moderate' Muslim doing about that - other than confirming what we already know? Any signs of the Rennaisance that Islam so badly needs? Any Martin bin Luther's out there have you noticed?

"Anybody who is educated knows that this is in blatant conflict with the peaceful teachings of Islam and I can quite guarantee, at least on my part and for every beautiful Muslim person that I know that we are not hell bent on taking over the West, exterminating any group, or suppressing anybody else's religious activity."

No doubt that all the 'beautiful' Muslim people are not hell bent on taking over the West - but many of the ugly ones are. I'm sure you're not stupid enough to claim total ignorance of what's happening in England, Denmark, Holland, Germany, Sweden, France, Finland etc etc . But if you are - I suggest you get out more - fly over to Europe and have a close look and the problems brought about in those countries due to increasingly strident Islamism. Of course you'll have to go through the inconvenience of increased security checks at the airports (along with everyone else) because of the actions of Bahai terrorists worldwide over the last 2 decades.

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