Amina: Islam is politics and politics is Islam and never the twain shall part

Submitted by Plato (India), Oct 7, 2009 at 04:58

Amina, you write,

>>The first thing I want to say is...WOWWWWWW you guys are extreme! I actually feel really really sorry for you both.<<

Many are the Muslims who have felt sorry for us or angry at us or been abusive on this blog. I have not yet felt sorry or anything else for myself, that is why I still post here. But most Muslim bloggers seem to feel sorry they post here and disappear after a few postings. You say you are also going to do the same.

>>I am so astonished at how narrow minded you can be! You are falling into such a trap, you are actually as polarized in your beliefs as the fundamentalists.<<

Polarized belief? What is that? One cannot believe in Islam and be a pagan at once. A fundamentalist's belief is as narrowly focused on one belief as you can get.

You just make statements. What is the basis for saying we are narrow minded? We don't mind the niqabs except if it is forced on women or it becomes a security threat to us.

>>Listen, I don't know what kind of Islamic propaganda you've been listening to (or perhaps seeking?) but if you have 2 brain cells to rub together, use it!<<

As males, Allah has given us two brain cells. But Allah (aka Muhammad) seems to think than women have only one: Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: …" The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence."

>>If there is anything that I have learnt of faith, it is that you must question, question, questuion.<<

Surely you are talking of some faith other than Islam, for in Islam Allah has forbidden Muslims to question His faith.

005.101- 102 YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. But if ye ask about things when the Qur'an is being revealed, they will be made plain to you, Allah will forgive those: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Forbearing. Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith.

If you are a Muslim then you could not have been questioning Islam or you would have lost faith.

>>Who is God? <<

What answers did you get to these questions you asked. Could this god get into an apoplectic rage if you associated someone with Him? Would a being who claims to be a merciful god punish you with never-ending torture for this silly "crime"? Would the Creator of the Universe, this god you are trying to understand, behave like a human cursing and abusing people he does not as in (Surah 111, the Palm fibre).

>>What is faith?<<

Would blind belief fit the bill? 002.003 YUSUFALI: Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;

>>What does he expect of us?<<

He has made quite clear what He expects of you in these verses:

009.029 YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. [ALLAH EXPECTS YOU TO FIGHT AND SUBDUE NON-MUSLIMS AND HUMILIATE THEM]

009.111 YUSUFALI: Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme. [ALLAH HAS GIVEN MULIMS A BINDING CONTRACT TO GIVE YOU PARADISE IF YOU KILL OR GET KILLED ON HIS BEHALF]

>>Why does God ask for such things?<<

Exactly! Why? Why? Why?

>>Which of these is relevant to our times?<<

What answer did you find to these questions?

>>Which of these is purely metaphorical?<<

Can you turn 9:29 and 9:111 into verses with metaphorical meanings which annul their literal meaning. That would indeed be a great feat.

>>Which of it these is human exploitation?<<

This question does not require two brain cells to answer. One will do. Allah exploits humans in hundreds of verses. You read 9:29 and 9:111. They are good examples of Allah exploiting Muslim belief in Him to exploit other human beings.

009.028 YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

Read Allah uses the believers to keep out the pagans from their sacred temple and sacred idols. Do you need any further evidence that Allah exploits one set of humans to exploit others? Allah offers Muslims riches from His bounty (looted wealth of pagan, jews) to make up for revenue lost from pagan pilgrims to the Kaaba.

>>You must learn to separate the politics from the religion.<<

We non-Muslims have not only learned but already practice separation of religion and politics. Allah does not allow Muslims that freedom. His sharia is supreme. Why do you think Muslim countries all swear by Sharia? Allah says Islam must prevail over the whole earth, even if it is detested. Politics and religion are INSEPARABLY mixed in Islam:

009.033 YUSUFALI: It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).

003.085 YUSUFALI: If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).

How does Allah intend to enforce these edicts of His without political power?

>>Islam is one of the 3 Abrahamic religions, of which the other 2 are Christianity and Judaism. Each of these 3 monotheistic religions believe in the one and the same God and are built on many of the same foundations.<<

True. Have you compared the foundations on which these three stand and the foundations of non-monotheistic religions like Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism? Monotheism is built with the rubble of prophets, angels, jinns, satan, talking birds and ants, a human-face horse, and one angry, jealous, self-glorifying god. Are these three any better than polytheistic religions? Islam is built on a foundation of blind belief, 002.003. Read about the polytheistic religions, they do not have the fear of abandonment or any sense of inferiority as demonstrated by the monotheistic god's constant demand for adulation.

>>Allah is merely the term for God in Arabic because that is the language of the Qur'an, but it refers to the same entity in all 3 religions. That is something everybody knows, be they Muslim, Jewish or Christian.Now pray tell me, why would God command the Muslims to hate the Jews and the Christians if He is the one who sent down all 3 religions?<<

Allah (aka Muhammad) commands the Muslims to hate the people of the book because they refused to believe Muhammad's claim that Gabriel spoke to him. Why should they, without a shred of proof, except Muhammad's words? Splitting the moon in two? LOL.

>>There is no such mention of it in the entire Qur'an.<<

We know. Just deny such things exist in the Koran if you have not read it. Or if you have read it, and are a bit more sophisticated claim poor translation or context.

Allah commanded Muslims to fight them and humiliate them in 9:29. Would He do that if He did not want Muslims to hate Jews and Christians?

>>In fact, I grew up with my father telling me that I am Jewish because I believe in Moses, and I am Christian because I believe in Jesus Christ, but lastly I am Muslim because I believe in Prophet Mohammed. I am genuinely concerned that you define a "good Muslim" as someone who is full of hate.<<

You should be genuinely concerned with verses like 9:29 and 9:33 in which Allah wants good Muslims to fight, humiliate and kill non-Muslims. Now if I re-wrote these verses with these minor changes would you think they are hateful towards Muslims:

IX:IVX: 009.033 PLATO: It is God Who hath sent Jesus with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Muslims may detest (it).

IX:XXX PLATO: Fight those who believe not in Jesus nor the Trinity, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Jesus and His Apostles, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are Muslims, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued

>>This is the point I have been stressing while you were busy mistaking "Muslim" for "Islamist extremist". What you have to realize is that an Islamist extremist will not agree with me just as s/he will not agree with you, because s/he believes there is only 1 way of practicing Islam and that is his/her way.<<

You cannot get away from verses like 9:29, 9:33 and 9:111. What will you do if they quote these verses to you and tell you your Islam is deficient if you refuse to believe and enforce such verses?

>>This is not Islam, this is not religion. It is a twisted dictatorship over religious expression (yes that term you don't understand where one is barred from practicing freely what one believes) and I abhor that as well.even if we are of the same religion.<<

Do you abhor 9:33? Does it sound like twisted dictatorship about religious expression? Or does 3:85 and 58:21 sound like Allah wants us to practice freely what one believes? Amina why do Muslims always twist things around and insist it is non-Muslims who do not allow the free practice of religion?

>>It is the extremists who proliferate false teachings and propaganda in an attempt to brainwash fools and desperates.<<

This is good dawa. The extremists know their Koran. They can pick out verses like 9:29, 9:111 or 9:33 and throw them at so-called moderate Muslims who fall silent when confronted with such commands of Allah. Considering the number of Muslims who believe their propaganda the Islamic world seems awash with "desperates" and brainwashed fools. Should you not be feeling sorry for those poor fools for being such easy prey to the teachings of the Koran (which despite being Allah's Book can be "twisted" so easily to fool people in the millions?).

>>Anybody who is educated knows that this is in blatant conflict with the peaceful teachings of Islam and I can quite guarantee, at least on my part and for every beautiful Muslim person that I know that we are not hell bent on taking over the West, exterminating any group, or suppressing anybody else's religious activity.<<

Has the person who sold you your Koran removed verses like 9:5, 9:29 and 9:111 or 9:33 etc from it? Buy another Koran or download three translations from: http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/

9:29 asks Muslims, beautiful or otherwise, to take over not just the West but everyone between East and West. 9:33 says that Allah will suppress all religious activity except that of Muslims.

>>So I can only conclude that it is you two, and not me, who wants to split the world into just 2 categories: Muslim and non-Muslim.<<

Sadly (or happily?) I must conclude that you are not a Muslim or at least not a knowledgeable one. Haven't you heard of dar al Islam and dar al Harb? If you knew these terms you would not be living in Australia for Allah says:

004.097 YUSUFALI: When angels take the souls of those who die in sin against their souls, they say: "In what (plight) Were ye?" They reply: "Weak and oppressed Were we in the earth." They say: "Was not the earth of Allah spacious enough for you to move yourselves away (From evil)?" Such men will find their abode in Hell,- What an evil refuge! – [HAPPILY THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU, IF YOU ARE FEMALE, AS THE VERSE IS ADDRESSED ONLY TO MEN]

>>I recognize and cherish that there are a myriad of identities and ways of expressing faith that is not necessarily mine. I accept the individual choice to cover, or not cover, so long as it is not enforced as this once again conflicts with Islam but is politically exploited. <<

But Allah does not cherish myriad identities. He demands one single identity in 9:33. Oh yes He did say once: 049.013 YUSUFALI: O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). …. But that was before Surah Tawba (Surah 9) came down like a thunderbolt on infidels and abrogated it.

If you cherish that there are myriad ways of expressing faith, then you cannot truly be a Muslim. Even within Islam if you innovate on religion you will be accused of 'bida' and your blood will be halal. You can do it in Australia because the infidel laws will jail the mulla who calls for your blood.

<<Dhimmi and Plato, you are both so focused on hating and patronizing Islam that I doubt you will ever make good company in this free society you supposedly live in. It must be a lonely thing to have such a small heart.<<<

We are in good company.The patronisers-in-chief are Allah and His Messenger.

39:36 Is GOD not sufficient for His servant? They frighten you with the IDOLS they set up beside Him. Whomever GOD sends astray, nothing can guide him [AND ALLAH FRIGHTENS MUSLIMS WITH THREATS OF HELL]

2:111 The [Jewish and Christian elders] declared, "Only the Jews and Christians shall enter paradise!" Such are their wishful fancies. Say, "Bring your proof, if you were really truthful." [WHAT PROOF DOES ALLAH OFFER FOR HIS EXISTENCE? THE BLOWING WIND, THE SPROUTING PLANTS, THE MOUNTAINS STANDING FIRM. HOW MORE PATRONISING CAN YOU GET?]

Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 13: Narrated Abu Huraira: "Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my life is, none of you will have faith till he loves me more than his father and his children."

He is supposedly a mercy to all mankind. And he wants Muslims love him above his father (what about mother?) and his children or the?ir faith will be nought. How more patronizing can you get

Regards

Plato

Amina

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