"better late than never"

Submitted by Lactantius Jr. (United Kingdom), Aug 9, 2007 at 17:30

To Sohail

I'm sorry it's taken so long to respond to you, but having been away a lot, and off-line much of the time, I haven't been able to respond to you before now, and having previously written extensively to you about the undeniable Qur'anic testimony to the whole Bible, now attempt to focus on what I believe to be the very heart of the matter, and the problem this causes you and other Muslims, who believe the Qur'an to be the unchanged, unchangeable, infallible word of Allah.

Analysis of both the Qur'an and the earliest records of Islam, show that Muhammad and the first Muslims, believed that the previous Scriptures remained in an uncorrupted form, with even Muhammad himself being exhorted to test the truthfulness of his own message, against the contents of the previous Divine revelations to Jews and Christians:-

"If thou wert in doubt as to what we have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee, the truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord, so be in no wise of those in doubt."

Sura 10:94

"The Book," those Scriptures available in Muhammad's day, are the same unchanged/uncorrupted Scriptures we now have available, and from which I have quoted extensively, setting out the sure and certain journey into life in Jesus' Name. Gospel refers to the Good News of God's Son, that God sent forth His Son to save the world through His life, death by crucifixion, and resurrection from the dead. What is found in the New Testament (Greek evangel, Arabic injil), is the written record of that Good News which was first made known in the Old Testament Scriptures (Hebrew Torah Arabic Taurat), manifested in the advent of the Lord Jesus, and initially preached orally by Christ and his followers, the Lord Jesus Christ Himself being the Gospel.

Since Muhammad came after the Lord Jesus Christ, and appealed to the previous Scriptures to verify his teachings, the fact that his Qur'an plainly contradict the very Scriptures he appealed to for verification, surely raises questions about Muhammad's prophetic credentials, there is simply no way around this.

To accept the Bible as the unaltered, uncorrupted Word of the living God, is to reject the Qur'an as a fraudulent book, and yet to reject the Bible is to reject the Qur'an's massive testimony to the authority and preservation of theBible. Since the Qur'an denies key essential Christian doctrines, whilst simultaneously supporting the preservation of the Biblical text, you are faced with an insurmountable problem Sohail, because the Qur'an denies the key truth of Christianity, namely the death of the Lord Jesus Christ on behalf of sinners, with His resurrection from the dead. The reasoning is that, since the Qur'an denies the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus Christ, it therefore cannot then be affirming the Holy Bible as the living God's Word which teaches it, but by denying the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus Christ, and yet also affirming the Bible as God's preserved Word, the author of the Qur'an exposes his ignorance and fallibility. The author of the Qur'an wrongly assumed that his denial of the crucifixion didn't conflict with his views that the Holy Bible was the living God's preserved Word.

By saying "go on and prove it," you invited my comments about pagan influences on Islam, and I now comment on some of the pagan incorporations into Islam. Recorded history demonstrates that Muhammad grafted many elements of pagan religion virtually unchanged into Islam, with the symbols, the temples, the rituals of present-day Islam, being known and practiced by polytheistic pagans before Muhammad was born.

Believing it to be of central importance, I have previously written at some length about Allah, the god of Islam, and these postings may be seen at:-

Who Is This Allah?

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/23072

The God of the Bible is not the same as the Qur'anic Allah

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/58369

Who Is This Allah?

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/64971

"Allah is not the God of the Bible revealed in the Lord Jesus Christ"

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/68630

No, they are not the same God at all

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/57459

"Allah" was regarded as supreme god of the pantheon of the gods known to the pre-Islamic Arabs of the time of jahiliyya ("the times of ignorance"), the name Allah occurring in composite pre-Islamic names such as Abdullah, Muhammad's father being called Abdullah ("slave of Allah"), Muhammad's great grandfather Hashim, being custodian of the Ka'aba, with Muhammad's tribe, the Quraish, regarding Allah as "Lord of the House" (the Ka'ba) which prior to Muhammad clearing them out, contained 360 idols, and very interestingly, still contains one of them, a black stone kissed by Muhammad, and Muslims since then.

Pre-Islamic history documents that many Arabian tribes were stone worshippers. This is also mentioned in Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol 5, #661. this being cited by Silas at:-

http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/pagansources.htm

"A principal sacred object in Arabian religion was the stone, either a rock outcropping or a large boulder, often a rectangular or irregular black basaltic stone ... " ( "Arabian Religions" Encyclopaedia Brittanica 1979 page1059)

"Of the numerous ‘baetyls,' ("meteorites, or small portable stones, supposed to have magic properties." An Encyclopaedia of Religions Maurice Arthur Canney, Nag Publishers 1976 http://www.world-religion.org/articles/b/b625.php) the best known is the Black Stone of the Ka'aba at Mecca, which became the central shrine object of Islam." ("Arabian Religions" Encyclopaedia Brittanica 1979 page 1059) The black stone is believed to be a meteorite, with the kissing of it a firm practice in Islamic law, because Muhammad did it.

Narrated 'Abis bin Rabia: 'Umar came near the Black Stone and kissed it and said "No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit anyone nor harm anyone. Had I not seen Allah's Apostle kissing you I would not have kissed you." (Sahih al-Bukhari 2:667)

Narrated Salim that his father said: I saw Allah's Apostle arriving at Mecca; he kissed the Black Stone Corner first while doing Tawaf and did ramal in the first three rounds of the seven rounds (of Tawaf). (Sahih al-Bukhari 2:673; see also 675, 676, 679, 680)

The reason behind Umar's reluctance in kissing the black object, is that the pagan Arabs also performed this ritual. Muhammad kept this pagan practice, a practice that Umar reluctantly observed. Yet, since he saw his prophet kissing it, he was obligated to follow suit. One present-day Muslim scholar, Sheikh Sha'rawi, says:

"The kissing of the meteorite is a firm practice in Islamic law because Muhammad did it. You must not ask about the wisdom behind that because this rite is (an expression) of worship in spite of the obscurity of its wisdom." (al-Fatawi [Legal Opinions], Sheikh Muhammad Mutawalli Sha'rawi, part. 3, page 167 cited in Behind the Veil, page 287)

Three other idols that Muhammad was familiar with, were Al Lat, Al Uzza and Manat, daughters of Allah? just 3 of the local idols worshipped in Mecca, with at least al-Uzza numbering Muhammad among her worshippers The Hajj F.E.Peters, 1994, pages 3-41, cited at:-

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-myths-muhammad-worshipped-idols.htm

Muhammad desired that the Meccans would accept him as a prophet of Allah. However, they were not receptive to him or his religion, making life difficult for him and his followers, causing many of his followers to flee to Abyssinia (Ethiopia), for protection.

Seeking the approval of his adversaries in Mecca, Muhammad recited Surah 53:19-20, this being recorded and fully documented as authentic, by Islam's earliest and most authoritative scholars, Ibn Ishaq, Ibn Sa'd, Tabari and Bukhari.

Here is what Muhammad recited:-

"Have you thought of al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third ... these are the exalted Gharaniq (a high flying bird), whose intercession is approved." (Ibn Ishaq, pp. 165-166)

and:- "When Quraysh heard that, they were delighted and greatly pleased at the way in which he spoke of their gods and they listened to him ... Then the people dispersed and Quraysh went out, delighted at what had been said about their gods, saying, ‘Muhammad has spoken of our gods in splendid fashion'". (Ibn Ishaq, p. 166)

"The Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, repeated them (the verses), and he went on reciting the whole of surah (53) and then fell in prostration, and the people (the Quraysh) fell in prostration with him." (Ibn Sa'ad, vol. 1, p. 237)

Imam Bukhari too confirms that after Muhammad recited Surah 53 the Quraysh accepted Muhammad and prayed with him:

"Narrated Ibn Abbas: The Prophet ... prostrated while reciting An-Najm (Sura 53) and with him prostrated the Muslims, the pagans (Quraysh), the jinns, and all human beings." (Bukhari: volume 2, book 19, number 177, Khan)

Muhammad's desire had been realised; the Quraysh accepted him. The Muslims who had fled to Abyssinia heard about this, and many of them began to return to Mecca. The Quraysh accepted Muhammad because he had, "spoken of (their) gods in splendid fashion" (Ibn Ishaq, p. 166).

However, the words which originally formed Surah 53 were subsequently withdrawn, and the form of the verse in the modern Qur'an, now reads:-

"Have you considered El-Lat and El-'Uzza and Manat the third, the other? What, have you males, and He females? That were indeed an unjust division. They are naught but names yourselves have named, and your fathers; Allah has sent down no authority touching them." Surah 53:19-23 Arberry

This change has very serious implications for Islam, and for Muhammad's claim to prophecy, with Muhammad having spoken satan's words, the so-called "satanic verses," which became part of the Qur'an, with neither Muhammad nor anyone else being able to distinguish them from Allah's words, and this is well documented in the Islamic sources. The four early biographers of Muhammad's life detail the story of "the satanic verses." Many Hadith also establish it, with references to it in the Sahih Hadith. Finally, there is specific references to it in the Qur'an.

The "challenge" of Surah 2:23 to "produce a Surah like it" has been met, and met by the devil, in answer to Surah 17:88 doesn't it disturb you Sohail, that satan produced verses which sounded exactly like those of the Qur'an. If they hadn't done, then surely Muhammad, his followers and the Quraysh would never have accepted them?

I have written about the "satanic verses" previously, at:-

What are the implications of the "challenge" having been met by the devil Sohail? http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/70268

More could be written about the origins of such Islamic practices as Muslim salat, wudud, pilgrimage to the Ka'aba, with its associated rituals of ‘the run' and stone-throwing, Friday as the day of assembly etc. and those who wish to see more documentation, please refer to the following:-

The Pagan Sources of Islam

http://answering-islam.org/Silas/pagansources.htm

Muhammad and Idolatry

http://www.answering-islam.de/Main/Shamoun/idolatry.htm

Islam Is Paganism in Monotheistic Wrapping paper

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-polytheism.htm

You say that "If you can find a verse which confirms the coming of Muhammad from the gospels, then i will believe that we have no problem."

I am not aware of a verse in the Gospels, or anywhere else in the Bible, which "confirms the coming of Muhammad," are you aware of such verse(s) Sohail?

I conclude by commenting on your ugly accusation that Sam Shamoun "is a liar." This is indeed an ugly accusation Sohail, and I ask you to prove your accusation, by demonstrating exactly where Sam has "lied," saying that if you are unable to do this, you must withdraw your ugly accusation and apologise.

Lactantius Jr.

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