Our dear Ibrahim Ali al-tablighee and You ain't no historian

Submitted by dhimmi no more (United States), May 30, 2007 at 07:35

I do not think you understood a single word of what i wrote you and do you know why? Because you ain't no historian. It is very clear that you did not read what Crone wrote. I do not want to call you a plagiarist but I believe that your post was not your original ideas, and you know why? because a serious historian knows very well that history is not black and white (more so when we are dealing with fiction) and that one have to be careful about the sources and understanding the sources behind the souce. And you know what? I do not think that you read Meccan Trade and if you did you did not read it with care.

If you are a serious historian there would be no reason for you to believe Crone or Peters or Wellhausen or me. You can only reach your own conclusions by applying the tools of literary criticism to the sources a task that i doubt that you can do and you know why? because I doubt that you can read Arabic or Syriac or hebrew or Greek the languages that you should know before venturing in pontificating about the history of early Islam. So stick to your Urdu.

So let me make it easy for you: you quoted a hadith in regard to the saga of Allah and Hubal but you know what? The hadith is bogus all of it that is and do you want to know more? And notice that a careful historian would have provided us with the isnad of the hadith, the source of the hadith and the matn in Arabic. Sorry buddy may be in Pakistan you read translations but a serious historian must read the source in its primary language Arabic that is a language that you do not seem to know.

As for Muhammad yes he existed and you know what? We hear about him _first_ from sources external to the tradition (see hoyland survey) but we do not hear anything about him for 72 years after his death (see Hoyland survey) from Muslim sources and why is that our dear Ibrahim?

The first real historical character in the islamic saga is Mu3awiya! How do you explain that?

Now do I believe that Allah and Hubal are one and the same? Like I said it is all fiction but if you wish to know, I happen to believe that Wellhausen was correct. So what did he say? may be you need to read what he wrote and if you refute what he wrote then you are correct. but remember it is all fiction. I do not think that you get it.

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