Lactantius Jr

Submitted by Sohail (United Kingdom), Jun 5, 2007 at 09:49

Titus 2:13 "Therefore He is able, once and forever, to save those who come to God through Him. He lives forever to intercede with God on their behalf." Hebrews 7:25 "There is salvation in no one else! God has given no other name under heaven by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12 The Qur'an gives eloquent testimony to the New Testament Scriptures, as it does to the whole Bible , as the unaltered, unalterable word of Allah, which I have documented in my previous postings, and still you ask, "Give me one verse from the Qur'an which says it supports all the books in the bible."

The Quran only gives testament to the Gospel and not those books.

I suggest you read Surah 5:44-46 the Abdullah Yusuf Ali translation of which follows, bracketed terms not being part of the original Qur'anic Arabic:- "It was We who revealed the law (to Moses): therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to Allah's will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah's book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers. We ordained therein for them: ‘Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal.' But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers. And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah. Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel." Notice that the author of the Qur'an quotes a passage from the Bible, and what he quotes is Exodus 21:23-25. The passage goes on to say that Jesus confirmed the Torah of his day.

Historically we know what that Torah was, i.e. the Dead Sea Scrolls, NT citations where Jesus cites the OT books etc. Additionally, in this same surah, the author says that Jesus learned the Torah, the Book, the Gospel and Wisdom: "Then will Allah say: ‘O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: This is nothing but evident magic.' " Surah 5:110 Historically we know what the Torah and the Book would have looked like at the time of Christ. In fact, the reference to Wisdom may even be an allusion to the Wisdom Literature found in the Hebrew Bible, i.e. Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs etc. As far as Surah 5:47, 66 and 68 are concerned, the command is directed to the Jews and Christians of Muhammad's time to uphold the Torah and the Gospel, AND ALL THE REVELATION from their Lord.

(The Noble Qur'an, 5:46) "And in their footsteps we sent Jesus the son of Mary confirming the Law that had come before him. We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law."

I think we are repeating a cycle. It is obvious the Gospel is not the 4 Gospels. It is only one Gospel.

More proof:

It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong). Qur'an 3:3

This verse proofs that Jesus had Gospel during his life and it not your four gospels because they came after Jesus had gone.

The question being, what were the Torah and the Gospel in the possession of the Jews and Christians of Muhammad's time? Is there any data suggesting that the Torah and the Gospel were something other than that which we find in the Bible today, or before Muhammad? Furthermore, the expression ALL THE REVELATION which Allah sent down, means that the Jews and Christians were to accept every Book that Allah revealed through his messengers and prophets.

Now, the question is, what were the Books which Allah sent through his messengers and prophets? the Qur'an itself saying that Allah sent many messengers, some of whom are not mentioned in the Quran? And yet the Qur'an says that Muslims are to believe in them all, which means that they must accept all the Books given by Allah through them. Again, if the Muslim is in doubt about the contents of the Book, i.e. how many Books were revealed, then he must do what his book tells him to do, ask us Christians. "If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt." Surah 10:94

Where in the Gospels did Jesus say this:

And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!" Quran 61:6

If you can find a verse which confirms the coming of Muhammad from the gospels, then i will believe that we have no problem.

Whilst it is true that the Qur'an rejects the Deity of Jesus cf. Surah's 4:171; 5:17, 70-75; 9:30 the Qur'an attributes titles, qualities and functions to Christ which shows that He is indeed God. Other titles given to Jesus Christ affirming His essential Deity, include the Word of God and a Spirit from God cf. Surah's 3:39, 45; 4:171, and I refer to an Internet posting by Sam Shamoun titled Jesus' Divine Claims and Islam An Examination of Biblical Christology In Light of the Quranic View of Allah's Attributes http://answering-islam.org/Shamoun/unique.htm in which Sam documents from the Hebrew Scriptures (the Old Testament) and the Qur'an, certain titles and attributes of God and Allah, comparing them to statements made by Christ, and concludes:- "Christ's extensive usage of divine titles and prerogatives that are found in both the Hebrew Scriptures and the Qur'an, affirms that Jesus' self-description is consistent with one claiming to be God Almighty. The Lord Jesus' use of divine titles that belong exclusively to God, shows that Jesus is God, or at least establishes the fact that Jesus claimed to be God. No true prophet of God would make such divine claims, unless of course the claims were actually true. And in the case of Christ, these divine claims are true since He is God in the flesh.

How many times do I after to tell you? Jesus is not God. Jesus couldn't do nothing without the help of God. Sam Shamoun is a liar.

No I don't mean pagan Eostr Sohail, I referred to Resurrection Sunday, and to Him Who "did death to death" by dying and rising from the dead, Who said of Himself:- "I am the resurrection and the life. Anyone who believes in Me will live, even after dying. Everyone who lives in Me and believes in Me will never ever die." John 11:25-26 and should you want to pursue your implication of pagan origins of Christianity, I'll be glad to oblige Sohail, and will also document Muhammad's incorporation of various pagan religions into Islam, these borrowings constituting significant facets of Islam.

Go on and prove it.

Sohail

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