Still The Same God

Submitted by Hamilton (United States), Oct 4, 2006 at 12:43

Dear Dhimmi No More, your arrogance notwithstanding, you have the makings of an interesting scholar, but you may wish to supplement your learning with a basic course in logic and reasoning. For the life of me I cannot divine what your position is. You will recall that the basic issue is whether Allah is the same God as the one Jews and Christians worship.

My aim is not to defend the Muslim religion, nor the Wahabi interpretation of it. Rather, my argument was in response to those who argued that the God of Christians was not the God of Muslims, to which I still have not seen a reply from you. My position is that it is logically impossible for a Christian to maintain both that the Christian God is the God of the Jews, but not the God of the Muslims, since both Judaism and Islam, though they are different religions, both worship the same unitary conception of God. ALL of the Christian claims that Allah is not the God of Christianity rest on the proposition that the Koran denies the Trinitarian conception of God. But so does Judaism. And since the Jewish conception is the God of the Old Testament conception, for Christians to deny that Muslims are worshipping the same God logically commits them to abandoning the OT (hence my point about singular verb forms despite the plural appearance of the term Elohim).

Now your ability to read a dictionary is impressive, but a citation or two to the Koran would be far more useful to constructing an argument than reciting Arabic words without providing translations.

You write the following:

Jesus was saying on the cross: Allah, Allah. The problem here is Jesus was saying: _my_ God which in Arabic would be: Ilahi Ilahi (one can also say "ya Ilahi ya Ilahi" or "O my God O my God" but this is not what he was saying. He was saying: my God my God.

If he was saying "God God" he would have been saying: "Alaha Alaha" or "Allaha Allaha" (Nestorian) because the language that he spoke was Syro-Aramiac where the word God means: Alaha or Allaha.

2. The Christians and Jews in the Middle East call God: Allah therefore Allah is the Judeo-Christian God.

Now, here's where a basic course in logic and argument would really help you. First, there is no explanation as to how or why "O my God" is materially different from "my God." I get that different words are being used. But therefore what? A person who said I pray to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is not praying to a different deity when he says, the God of my forefathers. A person who says that his God is YHVH is praying to the same God when he uses the word Elohim. So what is the point you are trying to make? If your saying Jesus was praying to the God of the Jews I agree. I supplement that and note that the God of the Jews and the God of the Musims is the same.

Second, it appears from point 2 that you agree with me. That indeed, Allah is the Judeo-Christian God, which of course, I've been arguing all along.

Now in your last post you ask the silly question about which trinity I'm referring to. And indeed, I'm referring, as I've been all along to the Christian conception of the trinity. But then you proceed to state that:

A. Your allah says that Jesus made birds from clay and then he did breath life into the clay birds albeit "bi idhin Allah". And you must agree with me that only a God can breath life, therefore Jesus according to your Allah is God!

Well, if you say that Jesus did such thing "bi idhin Allah"! I would say to you what is wrong with getting some help? At least he gets help from the Godhead.

Your Allah? He asks you as a muslim to "Qatil fi sabeel Allah" (oh silly me you know no Arabic. Urdu may be?) Your Allah is asking to help him by fighting in his cause. Your allah is asking a human being to fight in his cause. It seems that your allah the so called omnipotnet can do the job without your help! So much for omnipotent allah.

Again, might I suggest a basic course in logic and reason. Again, your ability to use Arabic is impressive, sadly you cite to no verses in the Koran (which I'd have thought you'd be sure to do in light of the fact that you find wikipedia to be an invalid citation). Because you have trouble writing arguments, I'll have to pick out what looks "interesting" here. And there are two points.

The first is the idea that Allah needs human help, which therefore undermines God's omnipotence. But this is interestingly an idea found in other religions as well. For example, Jewish mysticism has the idea of Tikun Olam. The idea of partnership to rebuild the world after the Godhead shattered. I suppose you'd also take as evidence against God's omnipotence the fact that he uses angels to do his bidding instead of just doing it himself. While your point is pointless, your second point is more interesting, or would be if you would provide a citation to the Koran.

To my knowledge, the Koran denies the divinity of Jesus and affirms Allah's unitary nature. Thus we see for example in Sura 18 "[18.4] And warn those who say: Allah has taken a son. [18.5] They have no knowledge of it, nor had their fathers; a grievous word it is that comes out of their mouths; they speak nothing but a lie." Repeatedly the Koran enjoins, "Do not joint gods with God." So, do Muslims believe that Jesus is Allah? I do not think you will find any Muslim so saying, unless the five pillars have been amended.

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