A response

Submitted by zzazzeefrazzee (United States), Mar 19, 2008 at 21:25

Jennifer:

That verse is noticeably lacking the phrase "only guaranteed". Sorry!

As far as the web sites that you feel "reiterate" this information, do they also stress that it contains the phrase "only guaranteed". The funny thing is there are plenty of other traditions guaranteeing certain people paradise that have nothing to do with killing unbelievers.

For example:
"Those who spend (benevolently) in ease as well as in straitness, and those who restrain (their) anger and pardon men; and Allah loves the doers of good (to others). And those who when they commit an indecency or do injustice to their souls remember Allah and ask forgiveness for their faults—and who forgives the faults but Allah, and (who) do not knowingly persist in what they have done. (As for) these—their reward is forgiveness from their Lord, and gardens beneath which rivers flow, to abide in them, and excellent is the reward of the laborers."
Qur'an, 3:134-136

Do the sites you refer ever bother to mention the above verse? Here are a few more confounding variables you may have not considered.

No Jennifer, I did not argue that the Christian and Muslim views of God are exactly the same. I do argue that the Jewish view of God is much closer that of Islam than that of Christianity for reasons previously outlined. The Great Jewish philosopher Maimonides in no uncertain terms vehemently condemned the concept of trinity, as do Muslims.

""Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved." - Acts 16:31"

Funny thing, but many Muslims I know would have no problem with this verse, as they believe Jesus to be a prophet, and that to believe the words of the prophets leads one to righteousness, ad thereby salvation. It doesn't indicate the necessity of a belief in trinity. Do you fully understand what many Muslims believe regarding Christ? have you ever discussed this with Muslim theologians? Have your theologians ever done so? Or do they just nonchalantly lambaste them?

"But He never promised eternal life as a reward for this; also, your assumption that the God of the Bible commanded killing based on people being "unbelievers" is incorrect."

Isn't it obvious that idolaters are by this definition, unbelievers?

Then what were they doing? NOT following their belief in a God that promises Salvation for following his commands?; NOT obeying the commands of God?; NOT following a supposedly "Righteous" path? Either they were following their belief in God, and therefore his God's orders, and thereby earning their salvation (which you point out is promised in Genesis 15:6), or they weren't.

It would seem that your point is based on a flawed understanding of the concept of martyrdom being the "only guaranteed" route to heaven, combined with apologetics regarding similar positions in the OT?

"I go by the original languages, Greek and Hebrew, of the Bible."

That's very nice; perhaps you should like to add Arabic to your list of languages, so that you can better fathom the beliefs of Arabic-speaking Christians, much less Muslims for yourself? Wouldn't it be better to apporach these matters using an objective, inclusive approach rather than rely on cherry-picked verses that others have fed you to underscore your belief.

"it is very clear that by faith you are saved, Old Testament (Genesis 15:6) as well as New Testament (Ephesians 2:8-9)."

That is certainly one Christian view. Do other Christian sects accept this? Do Jews also believe this? You should know that the concept of Christian Utilitarianism exerted a great influence on certain founding fathers.

"you have head of Messianic Jews, have you not?"

Of course I have, but they are a very small minority, and most Jews consider them to be Christians, not Jews. Just ask a Reform, Orthodox, or Conservative Jew. As a matter of fact I know a great deal about them as the parents of a childhood friend of mine converted to Messianic Judaism from Reform.

"In the Old Testament, the name Jesus Christ is not mentioned; however, it is stated that a Savior will come through the line of David; an interesting verse - "And I [God] will put enmity between you [Satan] and the woman, And between your seed [unbelieving humanity] and her seed [the virgin-born Messiah]; He [the Seed] shall bruise you on the head [Satan's final doom], and you [Satan] shall bruise him [Messiah] on the heel [a reference to the Cross]. - Genesis 3:15"

This is a very Christian interpretation- but would Jews (the "Messianic" minority aside) accept this?
Of course not. The Jewish notions of what constitutes the Messiah are very different from that preached by Christianity. In fact, many Jews would say that Christians worship an entirely different god, much as certain sanctimonious Christians here are claiming about "Allah".

"Allah", today, constitutes a mono-theistic "god". So does the "God" of the Bible.
"We seem to agree on that, at least!"

and I thank you for that!

My main premise has been to confront this notion purveyed by certain evangelicals that Allah is an altogether different God, and that Arabic-speaking Christians are thereby blaspheming for doing something that may in fact be a practice that predates the advent of Islam.

Whether or not you choose to accept that there is a shared commonality- principally that of a monotheistic deity- between Judaism, Christianity, and Islam is besides the point. My main point is that many of the arguments made about Muslims worshiping a different God by certain Christians are almost exactly the same as that made by certain Jews about Christians. I suggest that you learn more about Judaism, FROM ACTUAL JEWS, as well as Islam from actual Muslims, BEFORE you engage in parroting these arguments.

---

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".