ascenscion - to where?

Submitted by The Grand Infidel of Kaffiristan (Australia), Jun 28, 2008 at 02:25

Point by point:

Unfortunately you're taking the wrong tack in your arguments. You start with statements that not all consider would be true.

You immediately continue switch off half your intended audience by making statements which cannot be proven about events which have not been observed. This causes readers to see everything you have written as so much ignorant clap-trap by an ignorant Muslim fundamentalist trapped in a 7th century worldview - whether you are or are not.

"God created the heavens, earth and mankind"

OK, in a universe such as the one we live in - where we have such bizarre behaviour as photon entanglement and subsequent twinning - enabling instantaneous communication between particles across thousands of light years - and other sub-atomic absurdities such as

http://molaire1.club.fr/e_quantic4.html

- it is far easier to accept the idea of a universal field of super-consciousness that underpins the probable 22 dimensions in our known universe - described as being one of many in the 'multiverse' than to say categorically 'no, God doesn't exist'. To do so would be to have the utmost arrogance and to lock oneself into a particular attitude and worldview for one's lifetime. To my mind such a stance verges on stupidity. One of the smartest sayings we should all keep in mind came from the most unlikely of sources - the illustrious Donald Rumsfeld - when he came out with:

"

That's something that is not going to be 'figured out' on this forum - or by any human being. That's because, by its nature as the 'ground of being' - it cannot be. To lay my cards n the table my personal concept drifts toward a unified field of consciousness that extends across space and time. It's nature might well be pure bliss as the Hindu and Christian mytics describe. It exists whether we as individuals are tuned into it or not. All the great masters - with the noteable exception of Mohammed - exhorted their followers to find the connection with this super intelligence within themselves. The thing is, if you do not - then you can spend all your time and enrgy imagining and being devoted to an external God who does not exist. This type of god is an idol, a god created by the imagination and fed by other's misperceptions and handed-down fables.

If you do realise an innate connection to this potentiality of consciousness - then automatically it leads to more conscious behaviour - as you see that all things are connected and if you do harm - you are just harming yourself - as there is no 'outside' really. It's beautifully simple - the consequences of conscious action and self-actualisation are a happier and more fulfilled life . The consequences of living unconsciously (thinking we are 'awake' and aware when we are not ) is unhappiness and lack of fulfillment - creating strife for the individual and those he/she comes into contact with. It's self correcting - because our deepest selves experience suffering/lack of fulfillment - and tend to want to not experience these negative states. We are always searching for an 'out'.

The real crux of the matter is the true nature of this 'God'. As we know, There are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say , We know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, The ones we don't know we don't know. "

"Of all the Prophets that God sent to mankind, Prophet Muhammed , has the highest status, in the eyes of God."

If you asked Jesus or Buddha etc etc this question - do you think they would agree with you? Or would they just tell you the statement was meaningless as amongst self-realised beings - there are no 'highs' and 'lows'.

And if the 'god' we speak about is the ground of being then everyone has the highest status - everyone is as valuable as every other person - as ultimately there are no divisions - except in people's imaginations.

"Prophet Muhammed did exist."

A person commonly referred to as Mohammed may have existed. From the accounts in the Muslim books of his life and adventures - very little of his behaviour reflects the lives of the founders of the world's great religions. In fact a lot of it is entirely in conflict with their teachings. Therefore, on the balance of probability he was more likely to have been a cunning but misunderstood man with a florid imagination. Asylums for the criminally insane hold people who have a true genius and real charisma that can sway normal individuals. But these individuals committed crimes and were caught for it. Other geniuses didn't commit crimes and used their intelligence to help people's lives, directly or indirectly - an example would be Serbia's Nikola Tesla.

If Mohammed was an individual with a similar 'genius' in certain areas - it would have been easy to sway an uneducated Bedouin living in the 7th century,

"His trip from Makkah to Jerusalem did happen. At the site of the Dome of the Rock, he did lead a congregational prayer with all the +- 125 000 Prophets behind him, including Prophet Moses, David, Solomon, Jesus etc. He then ascended to Heaven. All this journey was done with him on the Buraq accompanied by Angel Gabriel.The total duration of the journey was such that, when he left his house in Makkah, the door latch was left swinging, and when he returned, this latch was still swinging.All this happened because God made it possible."

When you make statements like this you are merely quoting what has been told to you and what has not been independently verified by any other source. As as been elaborated before - no Jews or Christians living in Jerusalem at that time noted this event. Not one, zero. It is inconceivable that if this most remarkable event had taken place - that not a solitary independent witness took account of it.

I could, sounding just as convinced, say there is a gigantic plastic rabbit, sitting in a depression on the surface of one of Saturn's moons, which is controlling every single person's mind on earth . It is doing so with such power and such unimagineable skill - that it even causes every individual to disbelieve this when they first hear this statement. Their initial reaction is disbelief - which quickly turns into scorn.

"Death also exists."

We can agree on truisms.

Life in the grave also exists.The Day of Judgement will also occur, where you will stand in front of God, and you will be accountable for all you did in this life. With the hate and malice and attack you put on His most beloved of creation, Prophet Mughammed, you will have difficulty escaping the wrath of God.

If the nature of the Supreme being is bliss, love, superconsciousness etc as every OTHER tradition states, don't you think t would be a little absurd for this intelligence, (according to which it is said that all that is and ever was and ever will be exists ) to have exalted one particular 7th century Arab gentleman - above ALL that exists in all the universes? ?? (Especially seeing this individual came from a middle eastern backwater , had eleven + wives, (one underaged that we know about) , murdered several individuals and was responsible for creating a supremacist belief system that continues to cause strife 1400 years after his death ) All I can say is that the pink rabbit must have an incredible sense of humour for allowing you to believe that.

Seriously, if God is a superconscious, supremely beneficient force - I know I am in no danger of judgement by God for pointing out the obvious and criticising that which should be criticised. Muslims do not have any inherent right not to be criticised for following a supremacist doctrine that breeds violence and ignorance and individuals determined to spread it across the globe, by whatever means they are able. In fact, you could almost consider that 'God' would be disappointed in individuals who did nothing to stop such a thing being promoted.

"After God's judgement, you could be sent to HELL.HELL does exist. One description is ..." you are hemmed in by walls of fire, like the walls of a tent, with the extreme thirst, you drink boiling water, which make your insides boil like molted lead..."

"Pain is caused by

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain

If 'hell' is a place of 'fire' then it's not something a non-physical being would worry about. If we do survive physcal death then we do not have physical bodies therefore 'fire' will not affect us.

As people from OTHER traditions have said previously - 'hell' is an internal state. As a point of consciousness then perhaps the 'hell' is being trapped in 'low' consciousness of separation and having the full realisation that you did this all to yourself.

stimulation of a nociceptor, due to a chemical, thermal, or mechanical event that has the potential to damage body tissue" '

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