Dhimmi is your master?

Submitted by Khaled Al-Mutairy (Turkey), Jul 9, 2008 at 02:24

Bakwaas? You seem to have spent a lot of time with Urdu speaking people!

The co-founder of my consulting group is a Pakistani. Good friend of mine actually. He is a bit overly nationalistic sometimes, but İ have learned a lot about the region from his ideas and views.

Like other Muslims you make a statement without anything to back it up and expect your readers to accept it without question. Just as Allah and his apostle expect people to believe blindly.

What do you want to know... ? ‘'Like other Muslims this like other Muslims that"......like the media you are generalizing again. You are an embarassment to yourself.

But the other 5% are an angry lot who think the Hindus owe them a living for having usurped power from them when Muslim rule self-destructed.

Because the hindu caste system which rules over the country discriminates against them –especially the Dalits (which includes Muslims also in the group). They arent the only angry ones. Many Sikhs want to seperate from india, and you will see in the next 10 years india will disintegrate into 3 or 4 different countries =-)

In fact the Hindus have a grievance that the British divided up the country to appease the Muslims.

Pakistan was nothing after partition....most of the wealth was left to india. They had to start from square one. You don't know what you are saying.....must İ of all people correct you?

If so I suggest you read up on what the condition of the dalits is in India now.

Sure...its still bad. Here is an excerpt from a BBC article:

Several thousand tribal and Dalit Hindus in India have converted en masse to Buddhism at a ceremony in Mumbai.

The ceremony was billed as the largest religious conversion in modern India, but far fewer converted than had been predicted by the organisers.

The converts hope to escape the rigid caste system in which their status is the lowest.

Right-wing Hindus have often opposed conversion, pushing some Indian states to restrict legal changes of faith.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6695695.stm

à Their condition today is still sh*t!!!!

When was the last widow burned?

İ read about one such incident (satee?) in end of 2007. Need a link?

I would even consider circumcision a form of genital mutilation. Why attempt to meddle with Allah's work?

Uhhhh because it is hygienic to do?? İ feel sorry for any man who isn't. The thought of leaving the skin is disgusting.

I also urge you to be a man (if you are not a woman) and read the Koran and reflect on what it says about keeping slaves

Slavery is strictly forbidden in İslam. Islam has categorically banned the primitive practice of capturing a free man to make him a slave or to sell him into slavery. Islam tried to solve the problem of the slaves that were already in Arabia by encouraging people to set them free. Muslims were told that freeing slaves would mean the expiation of some of their sins. Freeing a slave of one's own free will was declared to be an act of such great merit that the limbs of the man who manumitted a slave would be protected from hell-fire-one for each limb of the slave freed.

The result of this policy was that , by the time the period of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs was reached, all the old slaves of Arabia had been liberated. The Prophet (blessings of Allah and peace be upon him) alone liberated as many as 63 slaves.

The problem of the slaves of Arabia was thus solved in under 40 years (check it yourself). After this the only slaves left in Islamic society were prisoners of war captured on the battlefield. These were kept by the Muslim government in question until their own government agreed to receive them back in exchange for Muslim soldiers they captured by them or arranged the payment of ransom on their behalf. If the soldiers they captured were not exchanged for Muslim prisoners of war, or their people did not pay their ransom money to purchase their liberty, the Muslim government distributed them among the soldiers of the army which had captured them.

This was a more humane way of disposing of them than penning them like cattle in concentration camps and taking forced labour from them and, if their womenfolk were also captured, setting them aside for prostitution. Islam preferred to spread them through the population and thus being them in contact with individual human beings. Their guardians, in addition, were ordered to treat them well.

thrashing your wives, chopping off hands of thieves

not part of İslam –but a practice in very austere countries that happen to be Muslim. İn Saudi Arabia, such practices have been abolished and are punishable offences. İ wont deny that it still doesnt go on in the world, but rest-assured İslam in no way condones such practices.

women being valued only half as much as a man

again my hindustany friend –you are incorrect! Women hold much power and as per İslamic tradition, control the family wealth and own a sizeable portion of the land. Violence against women is never condoned. And unlike in many other religions, women are allowed to divorce in İslam if they are unhappy.

İnterestingly enough --- ... should look at the Talmud and compare it to Shariah in this context. According to the Talmud, , a girl of three years and one day may be married off and if her husband's brother lives with her, she becomes his. Women according to the Talmud are a piece of property to be given away as pleased. In Islam, any woman that is widowed becomes her husband's family's responsibility but she is under no pressure to go and live with her husband's brother let alone ‘become his'.

Insulting Islam? What does Islam do? Insult, curse and abuse every religion Allah had heard about. What does Islam say about the pagan religions? What does Islam have to say about Christians and Jews??

That they are Abrahamic faiths (like İslam) and thusly, should be respected

Shariah law states how to treat Muslims and non Muslims in a Muslim country. In the time of conquering lands Muslims took over many countries . i.e. Spain. It is written that no non Muslim is allowed to be persecuted (I'm stating law here, how it's put into practice is a whole other issue.. keep in mind humans have a really good knack of ruining a good idea). Let non Muslims practice their religion as they please in the privacy of their own homes, they should respect the laws of the land that they live in and will not be harassed. All that is asked is that they be given a chance to convert, if they choose not to .. even that is ok. Those that convert are welcome with open arms, those that do not convert are just taxed a certain amount of money a year.

"There is a myth that Jews (Dhimmi) living in Islamic lands had to pay 50 percent of their income in taxes (Jizya) to Muslims. This is another attempt by non-Muslim historians to re-write history and demonize the golden past between Jews and Muslims.

Islamic Law states that "if" Jews trade in Muslim countries, coming and going in them, a tenth is taken from what they invest in such trade. This is because jizya is only imposed on them on conditions, which they have agreed on. {Muwatta Book 17, Number 17.24.46}. Live stock was accepted as payment Book 17, Number 17.24.45) . Therefore, the true Islamic tax rate for non-military joining Jews was 10%, not the mythical amount of 50%"

So far no bloodshed or hatred right?

Nowhere in Islam does it say that Jews or Christians are inferior. If anything, their Prophets, Jesus and Moses are both accepted and honored in Islam.

Muslims like you shamelessly accuse unbelievers of insulting Islam but have nothing to say about the abuse, curses and insults their Allah heaps on us.

Post the verses in question and İ will challenge them. İ guarantee you that they have been mis-interpreted by people with no grasp on Arabic (like ‘Dhimmi no more' on this blog)

I do worry about the caste system. I don't worry much about widow-burning because it hardly ever happens in today's India. But I do worry about honour killings and genital mutilation of women, and the thrashings which Muslim women suffer because the Koran sanctions it.

Once again, İslam does not sanction violence against women. But it depends on the situation. İ think we can strike them if we have proof that she is adulterous. But thrashing and murder are striclty strictly forbidden. Forgiveness is encouraged since Allah is the most Merciful. Take some time and read about Hazrat Ali (PBUH) when he came across his assailant. İ challenge you to read about it.

And yes –be worried about the caste system. İf has already destroyed the social fabric of your country.

The large majority of Hindus today do consider that it is an offensive practice and so have legislated severe punishment for any discrimination against dalits.

What about the Brahmins sir?

Why have Muslim countries not legislated against husbands thrashing wives and honour killings?

They have. And even developing countries like Pakistan have outlawed honour killings (Hoddood Ordinance abolished). İn Sudan and rural Egyptian villages, some of these incidents still occur. And İ really hope that education can be used to bring it to an end altogether –it is inhumane.

Regards..

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