You fail to convince anyone with your ... arguments

Submitted by Khaled Al-Mutairy (Turkey), Jun 30, 2008 at 04:21

Paradoxical to see a Moslem caring for Jews and secularity! FYI

Why?

we have no laws punishing with stoning, decapitation, hanging etc. anyone willing to sell their land to a Jew ... as is the case in Jordan or in your beloved Saudi Arabia

there are no Muslim countries with such laws. İ have no idea where you read this fact, but İ got a good laugh. Thanks for reminding me what it feels like to laugh so hard that it really hurts.

İ am not Saudi. İ am from the Kingdom of Bahrain. Heard of it?

And I myself am 100% for Israel ! How about you?

That's just so good for you. Pat yourself on the back.

İ am 100% for peace. Are you?

How morally superb, how sweet, how self-righteous! I have often noticed that ignoramuses tend to moralize, to show how dishonest and how immoral their opponents are.

You sarcasm seems to prevail over your logic. You should work on that. İ am not trying to moralize İ am just trying to be reasonable and debate maturely. You on the other hand are just hostile and have a bad attitude. Learn how to debate in a mature manner.

Moslems use the same words we kafirs do but they mean quite different things.

Please explain??

Generally, Islam - the religion of Lies and War - engenders liars and hypocrites and murderers.

Pretty old rhetoric. Come up with something new next time. Plenty of other threads where İ can read the same garbage. Once again, you need to learn how to debate intellectually. You are just insulting a religion and being very racist. İ am saying this for your own good.

As a Moslem you're sort of little Allah , a Mohamed in miniature –

Very disrespectful comment. But you are only harming your own credibility. As a Muslim, İ am just simply a Muslim with my own set of beliefs. But my religion is my own business –a private matter; the same way your religion is your own business. İ happen to be secular-minded and tolerant. You on the other hand, you need help.

A religion that has always spread through terror, public beheadings, intimidation and crime must indeed have much "poetry" to offer to the newly-converted or the candidates for conversion, needn't it? ;) ‘'Ever-present vices and crimes?"

İ suggest you read the work of Jalal Ud-Din Rumi. For the record, none of these things you mentioned are allowed in İslam. They are all condemned.

What did Muhammad ibn Abdullah do to the Jews in Medina e.g.? Did they fly with him on al-Buraq to Jeruslam with one-way tickets or what?

How interesting you should bring up this discussion. When he and his disciples emigrated to Mecca he signed many treaties between Muslims, non-Muslim Arabs and Jews of Medina which was ratified by all parties. The documents referred Muhammad (pbuh) as the Prophet and Messenger of God but it was understood that the Jews did not have to recognize him as such for their own religious reasons.

İn fact, he is known to have said (after the treaty of 622 AD) :

‘'No Believer shall oppose the client of another Believer. Whosoever is rebellious, or seeks to spread injustice, enmity or sedition among the Believers, the hand of every man shall be against him, even if he be a son of one of them. A Believer shall not kill a Believer in retaliation of an unbeliever, nor shall he help an unbeliever against a Believer"

Your post is garbage decorated in gold packing, 100% Moslem propaganda at its worst.

Please explain? Who is being a troll here? Me or you? Your posts are devoid of logic or rational thinking. Just sensitive emotions and ranting is all İ get from you. You should work to change this, so people can take you more seriously.

The editors? So what did you put in between?

Nothing at all. Very strange.

I noticed you prefer sweet phrases to decorate your trite Islamic slogans with.

Sir, İ really don't know what ‘İslamic slogals' you are referring to. Once again, put aside you emotions for a few minutes at least

Soft soap, empty words! Allah doesn't share your "generous" view...! "The Religion in the sight of Allah is Islam." (Qur'an 3:19) Fool some other people on how tolerant you're and how good Islam is! Islam is the cancer of this world!

Nowhere in the Quran is this written. Even the anti-İslamist websites don't mention such a verse. İf you want to argue effectively, you cannot spread lies.

Or why is Saudi Arabia 100% Moslem and Turkey 99,8% Islamic? Why does Islam kill apostates ?

a.) demographics....why is Poland mostly Roman Catholic?

b.) why do you ask silly and loaded questions? İslam is a religion not a person. Ask why misguided people kill eachother in the name of religion

Ne mutlu türküm diyene.

İn Türkish it means ‘'Happy is the one who says that ‘İ am Turkish"'

What on earth does that have to do with Turks being racist? They happen to be very nationalistic people. But if you would learn about Turk society (rather than wasting everybodies time with your cheap and sloppy ‘'research") –you would know that it is a ultra-secular country.

While your country was busy killing Jews and driving them out during the Nazi era –Turkey has always been a tolerant and secular Muslim country –where Muslims, Jews and Christians live side by side like brothers!! This has been the reality since the Byzantine and Ottoman eras!

Look at anti-İslamism and anti-Jewish sentiment in Poland!! İt is appalling!!

I have met enough Turks in my life and read enough relevant literature on the subject to know what I am talking about.

İ happen to live in Turkey my son. İ have read and seen more than you can imagine. Obviously reading about Turkey did not work for you. Probably your attention span and compehension skills are sub-standard (at best).

And whatever your travelling exploits might be, they haven't taught you critical thinking.

İ was going to say the same thing about you –since you have read so much and seem to know everything from İslam to geo-politics and what not!!

In fact being a Moslem and having a critical mind are mutually exclusive notions.

That is very interesting. İ wonder if it was a Muslim who came up with the field of Algebra (Al-Jabr)....who invented the first breakthroughs in photography...who invented the parachute....who researched breakthroughs in distillation and other chemistry-related fields...who invented the bridge dam.... Astronomical and mechanical clocks..sundials..water turbines and windmills…the crankshaft and connecting rods…many surgical instruments…the first torpedo…the first public institutions

For a full list –go here. Then tell me that they are mutually exclusive notions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inventions_in_the_Muslim_world

İ wonder what you or your country has done for contributing to humanity?

You can travel around the world all you life and remain a grim obscurantist you're in my eyes!

İ shall continue my travels and continue to meet lovely people of all colors, religions and backgrounds! Russia and Ukraine next week actually for a business trip. İ am very excited since it will have been my first time in both countries!

despite 9/11 Moslems in the US are still treated as if nothing had happened! I saw the airport guards molest an elderly lady while a beared Saudi was left uncontrolled

Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. CİA Torture Dungeons. Et. al.

For 9/11, every Moslem in the West should pay a special Moslem-only anti-Islam tax to finance the enormous security expenses caused by Moslems' terrorism.

You seemed to be very concerned about ‘'racism in Muslim countries" but now you make such remarks which further damage any credibility you MİGHT have had!!

Security expenses are the least of America's problems actually. They have to deal with 2 expensive wars whose outcome is not in their favour at the moment. Also the economy is performing poorly, and crime rates are growing. İ just read a report about gun-ownership laws becoming more relaxed in major cities like D.C. So İ think if they are worried about security –the lawmakers and politicans should blame themselves. As far as İ know, America is the only country where students bring guns to schools and kill their classmates and teachers.

But no, more and more Saudi bribes and Saudi-bought politicians gain power and ruin this land! How sick and suicidal!

America's thirst for oil will guarantee that the income for our G.C.C. countries will continue to keep coming in. But we are looking to diversify our portfolios, and now with hyper demand from China –we wont need to have as much influence or waste our time in Washington. But yes –Saudis especially have a good leash on America. But hey –business is business. The Saudis are no more powerful in USA than the neo-con zionists who have interests in israel.

Live on in your Moslem dreamland, man! Or read some of my (or others') posts on the subject on this forum. Turkey is a nation based on jihad, genocides, janissaries, most oppressive Islamic laws and brutal oppression of its non-Moslem minorities.

Jihad?? What Jihad? Turkey is simply a Muslim country –but is extremely secular. Religion is banned in public, and mere mention of jihad or violence will end you up in prison.

İ don't know what genocides you are referring to.

And there are no ‘oppressive İslamic laws'...İf anything –it's the other way around!!! No religious symbols are allowed in public institutions or universities (that includes the İslamic head-scarf)

Get your facts straight!! You just made a total fool out of yourself. İt is you who is dreaming, not İ.

Or what was "devshirme"? What happened to the Armenians, Greeks, Bulgarians? Why were the Kurds denied their most basic rights?

What happened to everyone during the fall of the Ottoman period? Everybody, including Turks were getting slaughtered en-masse. İt was a turbulent period.

As for the Greeks –many were killed by the Turks –but if you did research, the Greeks tried to invade Turkey. So Turkey drove them out professionally (as they did with the İtalians and Armenians when 4 countries in total tried to invade Turkey and ALL failed!!)

As for the Kurds ---it is a tough issue. They are fighting for a seperate homeland, and the PKK is a terrorist organization (supported by the French, Germany, USA and israel). Kurds are gaining more rights in Turkey –such as the right to use their language. But Turkey is a nationalistic country where ethnic differences are ignored. İf you are born in Turkey under the holy flag, then you are united.

You wouldnt understand, because in Poland and america, there is a total lack of ancient culture or identity. Please take it easy on the beer sir, it is affecting your health.

For the record, Ataturk was not Turkish, either.

He was Macedonian. Turkey wasn't a country yet, it was part of the Ottoman empire. İ really suggest you do more research.

He was allegedly secular which didn't prevent him from becoming the father of Turkish jingoism and a gazi - a holy warrior in Allah's path.

İn Allah's path? İn modern Turkish, Ghazi means a ‘veteran of war'....İt does not necessarily have to be ‘holy war'...not every war in the Muslim world has been a holy war for God's sakes. You are just mis-stating facts. Learn more about the nature of Turkish secularism. The military of Turkey by nature has been the sacred protector of secularism. This has nothing to do with ‘'holy wars". Nice try, try again.

It's better than browsing the Quran to mislead the naive and the unprepared as it is your tatics!

Whether its better or not does not matter. You cannot debate about İslam without reading and analyzing the Quran. You base your arguments on fox news propoganda, and the other hate-literature spoon-fed to you as if you were an infant with no brain.

We kafirs have no right to exist in the Moslem order of the world, do we? So why should we complain? Allah, the Moon God, decided in 3.19 and he knows best, doesn't he?

Allah (God), the Compassionate and Most Merciful knows what is best and we as His followers will always aim to please Him and do as He would have asked of us. İn that list of expectations is the notion of tolerance for non-Muslims as well.

The problem also lies with the Muslim intellectuals, who are not assertive enough against fundamentalism.

In the absence of any rational debate on interpretation of Islamic scriptures, the common ‘western' are not attuned to listen to the reasoned voice of the Muslims, who claim themselves as moderate, liberal or progressive. Blame the media and the fundamentalists alike –who sometimes even share the same agenda.

You mean what every Moslem means "A panel whereto only those will be admitted whose views are a priori pro-Islamic as in the case of the infamous Paris colloquy of 1991 which preceded the issue of the stupid and criminal Recommendation 1162/1991 which is now part of EU law.

İ think you just copied and pasted from somewhere without knowing much about it. How is it stupid? Should other laws protecting the freedom of thought for Jews and Christians also be annulled? İF you say ‘yes' –then you are simply a hypocrite and nobody can help you then.

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‘'I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others."

- Thomas Jefferson

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