Khaled: Tell us what verses you are referring to and stop quoting only parts of the verse, 5:32 that is.

Submitted by Plato (India), Jul 15, 2008 at 08:17

Khaled you wrote:

>>notice how it refers to war-time (i.e. war against İslam and/or during invasions)<<

Are you afraid to mention which verse you are referring to? My post has mention of many.

Anyway the prophet conducted nearly 80 gazwas (raids, battles) which means that if you average the number of raids over ten years you get 8 ( just a little less than one a month). Your prophet was busy with raids and wars in the last ten years of his life, almost all of them initiated by himself.

This would mean that many verses of Medina have to be in some war context. Do you expect the Koran readers to dig out what the war context was to figure whether to reject the verse or accept it in today's context?

>>it doesnt mean Muslims are allowed to kill innocent people (believers or non-believers).<<

Since you are shying away from telling us which verse you are talking about I will use my absolute favourite, 9:111. Below I have cut and paste 111 along with the previous and the following verses so as not to be accused of being out of context or cherry picking.

009.110
YUSUFALI: The foundation of those who so build is never free from suspicion and shakiness in their hearts, until their hearts are cut to pieces. And Allah is All-Knowing, Wise.

9:111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

09.112 Those that turn (to Allah) in repentance; that serve Him, and praise Him; that wander in devotion to the cause of Allah,: that bow down and prostrate themselves in prayer; that enjoin good and forbid evil; and observe the limit set by Allah;- (These do rejoice). So proclaim the glad tidings to the Believers.

The verse says that Muslims have concluded a bargain (exchanging their lives and goods for Allah's promise) with Allah for which He has given them a BINDING promise of paradise whether they kill or are killed in His cause.

Are you saying that since this verse was revealed during hostilities it is now redundant (or can be resurrected only during war times?). Obviously, Atta and his merry men did think the Muslims are at war with the West. The Muslims think they are at war with Hindus because of Kashmir. The Thai Muslims think they are at war with the Buddhists of the land. The Filipino Muslims of Moro Islands think they are at war with the Catholics of the Philippines. And so on ad infinitum, wherever there are Muslims they are at war with someone or the other. So verses like 9:111 are relevant to Muslims to this day at some place or the other on earth.

>>the killing of one is the killing of all humanity --according to the Quran.<<

Please don't quote a truncated verse. You claim that infidels like me quote out of context or cherry pick. Khaled, check the full verse. You have cut off the first few words which give it an entirely different meaning (unless Muslims are also children of Israel. LOL):

005.032 YUSUFALI: On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people…..

It clearly says this verse applies only to the children of Israel. It does not apply to Muslims, which is logical as Allah exhorts Muslims to kill in his cause in 9:111.

Also Allah says that if a Jew saves a life it would be as though he had saved the whole of humanity! No such deal for Muslims. LOL

Khaled, are Muslims allowed by Allah to use such tricks to fool the unwary non-Muslim?? Or do wish to plead that Yusuf Ali has mistranslated this verse so badly that instead of saying Muslims he ends us saying Children of Israel??

Regards

Plato

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