Take a history course:Plato

Submitted by Nura (United States), Oct 18, 2008 at 01:44

Never were truer words said. Your faith gives a damn for the comfort or wishes of non-Muslims. How many verses are there that curse abuse and threaten us with punishment in this life and the after life for merely not kow-towing to your Almighty Allah? There are nearly 400 or so verses that show extreme antagonism towards unbelievers including threats of unspeakable tortures in His hell.

And…your point? I guess that a loving God should love everybody? Let's put this into tangible terms, since you only believe in what you see.

Imagine that you have a child who you took care of all his life. You gave him everything he needed, but when asked who gave it to him he would say his father and he would show a picture of someone else. He would praise him and love him and devote his life to pleasing him when he did not exist. He would remember the time he narrowly escaped death. He would cry, "Thank you Father" while looking at his picture, not you. You were the one who saved his life but he thanked someone else. He refused to admit that you even existed. You followed him day and night looking after him. It was really you who came to his aid, but he did not see you his saw his imaginary father. You sent him letters asking him why he ignores you. Why does he not call on you, but a person who does not exist? Why does he give his love, honor and obedience to someone else, when it is you who leave food on his doorstep? You, who never slept in watching over his affairs. You, who have saved his life and helped him when he didn't realize it, yet he devotes his life and thanks a being that does not exist calling him father.

I think you would be furious and would call this son most unjust and ungrateful. Allah The supreme is much more than the father in the example above. He is the creator. The one who has created the air that you breathe. The heart that has not stopped beating from the first months of your conception to now. He has provided food, love, family, livelihood, and some knowledge. Who do you thank? You thank other's besides him. All your life you have thanked other's beside him despite his letters to you. His invitation to acknowledge your true creator. You have been instead ungrateful while your heart beats of his permission. You have slandered him and his servants. You mock and blaspheme his name. You became an open enemy while you eat the food that he provides for you, while your shadow prostrates before him. Allah the supreme will allow your insolence for a time. But you will be called to account and will then wish that you could prostrate before your lord. This message is not new? How would Allah be just if he rewarded people who did not believe in him while there are others who believe? Other's who sacrifice day and night seeking his glory and love, while you seek the love of one who does not exist. Are these two people the same? This is the reason why God has always ,since the beginning, warn man of the punishments of associating Gods with him.

If Allah did not warn us of the punishment for not believing in him, would it be just to punish those people? Allah warns as way of Justice. Humanity has had fair warning in what is to come for disbelief. If you don't like his punishment, take it up with him.

Allah says that the Quran has come as a barer of glad tiding, and a Warner.

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YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter

Allah gave the order for Muslim to fight their enemies. He said this because many did not want to fight. They feared death. But Allah is telling them that seeking the hereafter is more important. It was necessary for them to fight in order to survive. Only the ignorant would dispute that.

YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?

This order from Allah means that you cannot be friends with unbelievers. You Nura live in the USA. Do you avoid the Christian and Jewish Americans because of this direct and other (3:118, 4:139) orders from Allah. You even have to reject your parents and near relatives (9:23). Is this how Allah enlightens Muslims? Is it any wonder that Muslims are rejecters of everything and everyone they consider un-Islamic? Nura, you love a religion that asks you to be unfriendly with anyone who is not a Muslim. Prove to me I am wrong.

I would gladly prove that you are wrong. Firstly, you have interpreted this verse partly. This verse came in a time when everyone Jews, Christians, and Pagans, were adverse to Islam. This passage first says do not take them as a Wakil, which would mean a guardian or protector. It further says that they are protectors of one another, speaking of Jews and Christians. I think that status quo proves that. You miss the important part of the ayah, it says RATHER than the believer. Your primary friendships or people who you trust your life with should be Muslims first for the following reasons:

1. Heard of the saying birds of a feather flock together, Or the issue of peer pressure? Non-Muslims have different values than we have. Some people can be easily influenced by their acquaintances. I have seen this happen over and over again. I have had non- Muslim friends before and they never understood why I didn't date and would encourage me. If I was a weak person I could have been influenced. Furthermore, Islam tells us to choose our friends closely, even if they are Muslims. I have had to cut Muslim friends because I have felt that they were a bad influence. It is really the same issue. If you don't want to compromise your religion, you should hang around people who believe what you believe. Either they will change you, or you will change them.

Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) had many interrelationships among his tribe. Did he leave his uncle who a pagan until he died? He loved his uncle, he actually wanted to pray for him. It is because of him that his uncle will have the lowest punishment in the fire. Does not Islam teach to keep close relations with family? No, I'm sorry. There is no evidence that Muslims were instructed to shun their family because of their beliefs.

Nura you live in the West and yet you make such a dishonest statement. You claim that Christians are leaving Islam. How can that be if the West dictates the faith of people. They cannot even dictate the faith of people in their own territories. Where in the world do they dictate who believes what? Show us.

Well let's look at France who has outlawed the Hijab. Let's look and Germany who is seeking to do the same thing. Let's look at how people are attempting tell Muslims that our religion needs a reformation. Where have you been, sleep for the last decade? Let's talk about how a Muslim student in the U.S had to fight to be able to wear her scarf at school. A Muslim professional football player was criticized for not standing up for the pledge of allegiance which is Haram for Muslims to pledge to ANY flag. I had to go through hell to have a passport picture with my scarf on. Don't tell me people are not deciding what Muslims should believe. You hear it everyday. There is a significant group in Holland who calls for the ban of the Quran entirely. More is coming. Yes, we have freedom of religion, but they make sure that people make you feel uncomfortable about practicing it. Too me, that is dictation. When a person comes to me and say "honey, you are in America now, you don't have to wear that anymore", that is dictation. When someone said to me that "Muslims women don't have to wear the Hijab," that is dictation. The argument that the Quran needs to be updated, that is dictation. Where are you, I'm out here.

In how many Arab countries can a Hindu install his idols. In the country you live in there are plenty of Hindu temples and also mosques. So tell us again Nura which religion outlaws other religions.

For the record, the only religion that was outlawed in Muslim society was Paganism. Secondly, so the hell what. Islam came to dispel idol worship from the people, why would it then bring it back? You are asking as if Allah is being unreasonable. You are asking as if Islam is the only religion that does not warn pagans that they are going straight to Hell. It's actually a very old message.

Tell me, If Hindu's are so inclusive, why are they killing Christians and burning churches AS WE SPEAK! Don't act brand new Plato, we had the Hindu debate before. You can not tell me that your gods are more just by inventing a cast system where people's destinies are locked into their Karma. A religion where the greatest hope for a woman is to be re-born a man. Where women are killed and burned if their dowries are not enough. A religion where a woman is expected to burn herself when her husband dies. These are aspects of the religion that you say Allah is intolerant of. I'm sure that there are changes in your country in regards to these issues, but you cannot say that it is not apart of your religion.

Why do you bring in Judaism? They suffered violence under both the Christians and Muslims. Six million Jews are witness to that in modern times. And the Banu Quraiza are witness for Muslim ethnic cleansing of Jews.

Violence against African blacks in the form of the slave trade continued until the twentieth century and continues to this day in the violence against the negroes of Darfur.

I guess you should read the Old Testament. Are you really this ignorant? Jews have wagged wars upon wars on their enemies in history and present. They were ordered by the God of Yisrael to exterminate the Canaanites, man, woman, children, and livestock for their paganism. There were many other battles that were waged against pagans solely for their beliefs. They were slaughtered. Come on, you bought the innocent sheep story? Still care about their suffering when they slaughtered your pagan brother's lol. The armies of Yisrael were known!

Banu Quraiza was ethnic cleansing? It was one incident against one tribe who happened to be Jews and you call that ethnic cleansing? What an idiotic statement. If Muslims wanted to exterminate the Jews in their lands, they could have a LONG, LONG time ago. Jews still live in Arabs lands today so what are you talking about?

I think that Christians were the notorious perpetrators of the slave trade. You really need to take a world history course. The violence in Darfur is a tribal and political conflict of is likeness has not been an occurrence in Islam.

P.S. Black people are no-longer called NEGROES, it's kind of OFFENSIVE.

Who does this spilling of Muslim civilian blood? Check out what is happening in Darfur. More Muslims have been killed in just a few years by other Muslims in Sudan than perhaps all the Palestinians killed by Israel during this past sixty years.

Wow, so you admit that the conflict in not religious? Darfur is a crises, however, it does not support your argument. There is a civil war going on in Sudan as there are in many areas in Africa and the world. What is your point?

So, you don't think that U.S. forces, British forces, Nato, have not killed a large number of civilians? I'm wasting my time on you.

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