Our dear Keith speaks like a tablighee and allah al-makkar

Submitted by dhimmi no more (United States), Nov 2, 2008 at 15:41

Our dear Keith the wannabe Arab did not refute my translation and you think that i did not notice?

>My translation is not bogus.

Your translation is bogus, tendentious and poor

>And (then unbelievers) plotted and planned, and God too planned, and the best of planners is God. (Qur'an 3:54)(Abdullah Yusef Ali)

Oh this is what I expected. And why did you not tell us the source of your translation? Do you know what we call those that do not provide their source? let me help you: plagiarists so are you a plagiarist?

For the readers Yusuf Ali's translation is a very poor and tendentious translation. Yusuf Ali was an Indian Muslim he lived in both England and India and as far as I know he never lived in an Arabic speaking country and his command of Arabic is not the best and there is a project here in the US to fix this very translation and let me repeat what I just wrote:

1. Where would you find the words idha al-kafiruuna in the above aya/ You will not find either one.

2. Plot means mu'amara and the word plan means tadbeer and the v.n. is dabbr and you will not find any of these words in the aya.

3. The words in question are: makaraa or deceived and it is a F3L or fa3ala but read it in present tense due to grammatical aspect now notice that the words he is using are in the past tense: plotted and planned. So it is not that he is making things up only but he has no clue about grammatical aspect. Shame on that ignorant man

4. I will leave the argument that this aya is really a pericope as this is beyond you and beyond that

5. So your Allah is calling himself: khayru al-maakiriin or the best of the deceivers you think we should add it to his 99 names?

Now if we turn to Pickthall's translation (the poor man was converted by ignorant tablighees but at least he is more honest than Yusuf Allia and his bogus translation) and this is how he translates the words:

makaraa is schemed

khayru al-makiriin is the best of the schemers

So much for Allah the schemer

>I got this translation from, The Meaning of the Holy Qur'an by Abdullah Yusef Ali.

And so much for Yusuf Ali the his poor translation

>You are right that the translation is not word for word from the Arabic to the English and that is why it is called the meaning of the Qur'an being a mixture of Tafsir al Qur'an (Qur'an commentary and meaning)

Good translations of literature should porvide us with what your masters the Arabs call tarjamat al-kilma and tarjamat al-ma3na and no I do not translate Arabic for wannabe arabs like you

> to help in understanding the Arabic idioms which we can't perceive when it is translated straight into English. When we translate the text from Arabic to English some of the meaning gets lost.

One word: gobbeldygook. Anyone that knows his Arabic can read and understand the Qur'an and this is not a difficult aya to translate

>That is why we have scholars to help us not only to translate but also to interpret what is being said in the Qur'an. You and I can translate it but it is hard for us to interpret because like you said we have not gone to one of the Islamic schools to learn tafsir al-Qur'an .

Bogus. This opaque revelation does not make any sense and the genre of tafseer wa ta'weel was the 3Ulams way of saying we really do not know what the Qur'an really says and this is why we have this little gem: "al-tafseer lel sahaba wa al-ta'weel lel 3ulma/fuqaha" and only Allahu a3lam

> I have not been schooled on tafsir al-Qur'an so I am not an expert and so I am sorry that I can't break it down for you but I can give you some websites to help. http://www.altafsir.com/

Well let me tell you: this is ta'weel and you and I can guess just as much as those fools guessed. So you tell us and this is an open book exam: So what is the meaning of the word ilaf in Surat Quraish? And in surat al-tahreem did Muhammad ate some bad 3asl nahl or was there a mariyya al-qibtiyya? and it cannot be both. So much for tafseer or is it ta'weel

>Also, some of the words that we find in the Qur'an are not used anymore in colloquial speech as well as some of the Arabic words have changed meaning thru the years and may not mean the same thing as they did 1400 years ago.

Bogus. The word makr or deceiving and the word makara or (he) deceived are very stable words so stick to urdu

>So, even though I know MSA (modern standard arabic) does not mean that I can interpret what the Qur'an says even though I can recite it and translate it into English.

Bogus again. The strange thing about the Qur'an is if you really know modern Arabic then you can really understand much of it without tafseer but I will give you a chance: check Lisan al-3Arab and you either put up or oh you know the rest

>For an analogy if I may. And I know you have been upset when I quote from the Bible but I only do that to help in your understanding and benefit as an analogy and/or compare and contrast. One comparison is with the Bible. The King James Version is a good example if you follow my logic. I know English but when I read the old English I don't really know some of the meaning. Also, the King James is a translation from Latin, Greek, Aramaic, Hebrew, and Arabic therefore the same problems with the real meaning may get confused from 2000 years ago due to changes in the meaning and idioms from time to time. That is why we have Priests, Imams, Rabbis, etc... People who train their hold lives in the art and science of interpreting the holy books.

Gobbeldygook and what does this have to do with my claim that your transaltion is bogus? Your source should be ma3ajim wa qawamees al-lugha al-3arabiyya the likes of Ibn Manzur's Lisan al-3Arab and also reading the writings of the Muslim masorites

>From my understanding, Makara مَڪَرَ in Arabic has a good and a bad meaning,

makara means decieved period. you need to stick to Urdu

> that of making an intricate plan to carry out some secret purpose. When God plans of course it is always for the good. All believers know that. Now when man makes a secret plan, it could be good or bad but it is still makara in Arabic. The purpose of the Makara is what you don't understand and what I was trying to explain to you. You got so wrapped up on the translation of the word that you could not see the purpose and meaning. You automatically assumed that since the plan is secret it must be bad. That is jumping to conclusions. We don't know God's purpose but he knows more than we do and we have to have faith and trust in him and know that his plan is always good and always for our benefit unless of course you are an unbeliever. Even so, he causes good on the believers and unbelievers as we see around us but that is where we don't know for sure why that is and why it seems that bad people reap well sometimes. We are told in both the Qur'an and Bible that all will receive what we have earned. We will reap what we sow.

Gobbeldygook more Pakistani topoi

>Also, remember that this beautiful Qur'an in its beautiful Arabic prose has a very beautiful sound and melody like the Pslams of David but is still packed with deep meaning. That is something isn't it. Praise God. If you would like to hear some very beautiful Qur'an recitation that will make your heart melt and make the tears flow from your eyes also with the english subtext and if you wish english recitation, please go to: www.quranexplorer.com

The Qur'an a book that you cannot read in Arabic because you ain't no Arab is a confused and confusing book in any language including Arabic

I urge you to abandon islam and stop being a vicitim of Arabian imperialism and yes stick to Urdu

>peace

Whatever

---

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".