Apostasy does not equal treason

Submitted by the Grand Infidel of Kaffiristan (Australia), Oct 30, 2008 at 23:31

Keith Williams took the time to find definitions for 'treason' and 'traitor'

"Oran's Dictionary of the Law (1983) defines treason as: "...[a]...citizen's actions to help a foreign government overthrow,
make war against, or seriously injure the [parent nation]." In many nations, it is also often considered treason to attempt
or conspire to overthrow the government, even if no foreign country is aided or involved by such an endeavour."

Outside legal spheres, the word "traitor" may also be used to describe a person who betrays (or is accused of betraying) their own political party, nation,
family, friends, ethnic group, religion, social class, or other group to which they may belong. Often, such accusations are controversial and disputed,
as the person may not identify with the group of which they are a member,
or may otherwise disagree with the group leaders making the charge. See, for example, race traitor

As you can see apostasy, is betraying one's religion and is a form of treason. "

Sorry Keith, the two terms are not equivalent and you cannot draw that conclusion at all.
You can say a person can be a traitor to his religion but you cannot say an apostate is committing treason.
Point (a) above is correct.

"....Lastly, on the Sunnah, it is not mandatory nor necessary but for some people they find it necessary
for them and you can do them if you want. It is okay and recommended but not mandatory or necessary.
Just take it slow and step by step."

Reminds me of the way you can boil a frog to death by raising the water temperature very slowly - so it doesn't notice!

I think you're making the mistake of thinking I'll find something in
Apart from its slightly exotic Arabian Nights background ( which might be a hook for disenfranchised (usually young)
Westerners looking for meaning and love in their lives who haven't found it in the smorgasboard of spiritual and other beliefs available
in the free and unregulated market of ideas available in the West) - Islam has NOTHING that hasn't already been covered by major world religions.
Every religion has God as its focus (Buddhism has the enlightened Buddha nature True Self). Islam oversteps the line when
(inter alia) it proclaims itself the ultimate revelation of truth and makes the absurd and arrogant statement that its prophet
was the last prophet.

It's quite a difficult task to sugar coat Islam to make it try and fit in a Western context. It never will.

There are many reasons why not, one being the bias (rightly or wrongly) against muslim culture - largely brought about by the actions of Muslims themselves in their own countries. Historically we have precedents in Spain and the attempted Ottoman invasion of Europe. More recently we see the actions of Muslim governments and complicit Imams in Iran supplying arms and support for Hezbollah in lebanon and other places.

We saw the Mujahadeen in Chechnya and the Serbian/Bosnian(Albanian) war (if you get a chance see Yugoslavia - the Avoidable War).
We saw British born Muslims caught in training camps in Afghanistan, people celebrating in the streets across the Muslim world when 9/11 occurred and again in Iraq when the bodies of slain US troops were dragged through a town, stripped naked, hoisted on a bridge and set on fire to the delight of screaming crowd.

We see public executions that pass as entertainment for the masses - people jeering as unfortunate victims take their last breath on the end of a rope. People who either would not be charged with a crime or commit crimes that deserve merely a fine or a short-term incarceration

activistchat.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=31505

and watch the video on

http://www.rottengods.com/2007/07/death-by-strangulation-allah-is-great.html

We saw and continue to see women stoned to death for having affairs!

We hear them trying to justify the aberrant sex life of its 'prophet'.
We saw the screaming masses in near apoplexy, setting fire to buildings and with a rampant uncontrolled hatred toward the West and its people after a cartoonist pens a drawing showing an imaginary Mohammed, whose face no Muslim alive now would ever recognise.

We wonder - what kind of people are these? What sort of religion allows these things to happen and does not speak out vociferously against it?

Other religions are quite clear about it.

And why is it that Arab devotees see themselves as the 'real' Muslims?
Despite the Koran saying explicitly 'all men are created equal under 'Allah' - it seems some Muslims are more equal than others ? (to paraphrase George Orwell)

After reading the above points ,sure, you can come back with the cliche that these people do not represent the 'true Islam' - but who does?
Muslims, when they are in a majority in a country think that non-Muslims in its midst are less worthy than they themselves.
Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Malaysia, Afghanistan, Pakistan and even Turkey, hoping to jon the non-Muslim EU, all attest to this.
(http://www.minorityrights.org/676/press-releases/turkeys-christian-and-other-religious-minorities-face-discrimination-and-rights-violations.html)

Mohammed said:

a. "May Allah humiliate those who seek to humiliate the Quresh (his tribe)." Sahih Tirmzi Vol. 2 p.335)

b. The Prophet said to Sulaiman Farsee (the Persian Convert), "If you bear odium against the Arabs, you bear odium against me." (Sahih Tirmzi Vol.2. p.840)

c. The Prophet said: "I will not intercede for those or love them who are not fair with the Arabs." (Sahih Tirmzi Vol . 2 p.840 )

In short, Islam has no real answers for the West that other traditions cannot already supply.

Islam? It's not universal, it's an Arab concoction of a religion and that is where it belongs.

Nein danke

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