Keith Williams: What is up front and also the bottom line is the incoherence of the Koran. Part II

Submitted by Plato (India), Nov 9, 2008 at 23:21

Keith, you wrote:

>>When I was a Christian I was a big time sinner and felt bad inside that I was not able to bust out of it but now with Islam I am strong in faith and power and every day I get closer and strong to God. ……..That is why I converted to Islam to get a closer relationship with God and to stir away from evil. <<

What is this sin you are talking about?

>>I seek refuge with God from the suggestions of the evil ones and I seek refuge with God lest they should come near me.<<

Allah permitted the evil one to do his job. The Koran tells you so:

038.082 83
YUSUFALI: (Iblis) said: "Then, by Thy power, I will put them all in the wrong,- "Except Thy Servants amongst them, sincere and purified (by Thy Grace)."

Also read a similar interesting little conversation in Heaven(15:32-43). Satan uses Allah's power to misguide people and lead them to hell. Just as Allah has contracted out the job of killing infidels to Muslims He has given the job of filling up hell to Satan.

>>With each prayer it is a recharge and boost of spiritual energy to give me strength for that internal Jihad(struggle) with my own ego.<<

Just to remind you. Allah put that ego there in you, so it can't be all bad.

>>The constant focus on God throughout the day and with everything I do is an awesome reminder that keeps me focused on him and obeying him and knowing that he is watching everything and I want to do everything right for him. It is awesome to know that he is guarding you and loves you and guides your every move and step.<<

It is awesome that this same Allah could strike you down with an earthquake any time He feels like it, give you an incurable cancer or have a truck run over you. Yes, really awesome.

>>Just let go and let him be in charge of your life. We just mess things up when we try to do it. <<

What have we messed up?? The world has gone from strength to strength despite Allah, not because of Him. That is obvious from the plight of the Muslim countries.

>>Submit to his will. Accept it and you will get peace just as he promises.<<

What is Allah's promise worth when He keeps repeating that He will do whatever He wishes. Only in 9:111 does He make a promise to which He binds Himself. And you know what it is all about.

>> It is a tough battle but easier with God's help and I am glad that I have the principals and also the tactics, techniques, and procedures to win.<<

You probably are a winner. But compared to the rest of humanity Muslims are faring badly despite Allah being on their side.

>>For example, today when you hear that a man is Gay you think homosexual but 50 years ago it meant that the man was happy. We use the same words but they change meaning over time. So you have to interpret the words as to when it was used and not how we use them today is what I was saying. Then you will be able to determine the Tafsir (meaning) in the Qur'an. Makes sense???<<

What you are saying is unless we can dig up the old meanings of all the words in the Koran we could be in deep trouble with Allah. Why did Allah not ensure that Arabic words remain stable to save us all this trouble of hunting out the old meanings of Arabic words? Allah keeps insisting that His words cannot be changed. What we now have is a Koran that does not agree in its meaning with the Koran that was originally revealed. So much for Allah's unchanging word. One word for Allah's Koran. Senseless.

>>So, if you use an Arabic dictionary to translate the Qur'an to get the meaning you will fall short as the gentlemen like dhimmi and btilly keep trying to translate certain words in which they say that the translators were lying because dhimmi and btilly found a different translation in a 20th century Arabic to English dictionary of the words and thereby interpreting the Qur'an falsely.<<

This mistake of not making Arabic words stable has opened up thousands of jobs in the Islamic world. The interpreters of Islam for the faithful.

>>The words have never changed in the 1400 years in the Qur'an and it is the same Arabic, however, the meaning of those words have to be interpreted for us by a scholar who is familiar with the original meaning from 1400 years and not just by anyone picking up a 20th century Arabic to English dictionary and saying that they found mistakes in Abdul Ali or Pichtall translation.<<

Read the translations I have pasted below of these two scholars:

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YUSUFALI: It is not fitting for a prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he hath thoroughly subdued the land. Ye look for the temporal goods of this world; but Allah looketh to the Hereafter: And Allah is Exalted in might, Wise.
PICKTHAL: It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in

the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

Yusuf Ali says prophets should not take prisoners of war until the land has been subdued while Pikthal says they should not take captives until a general slaughter has been committed

The Muhsin-Al-Hilali translation also says that Allah tells the prophet to slaughter people.

Now why would a scholar of Yusuf Ali's stature hide the fact that Allah is asking for mass slaughter? What are Islamic scholars worth if this is how they mislead non-Arabic speakers?

The scholars who have interpreted the words of the Koran have done a poor job as there seem to be as many interpretations as there are scholars. Thousands of scholars after labouring for more than a thousand years are unable to come to a definitive conclusion about the meaning of the Koran. Allah's words seem to have many meanings. Ibn Kathir is very clear about 9:111. Can you give us a translation or interpretation that betters him?

>>Lastly, the clergy can then teach us how to apply those principal within todays society. I was also making the fact known that I was not a scholar in this area either and must rely on these scholars to give me the Tafsir (meaning) because of this 1400 year gap in the Arabic idioms and meaning back then to what I know and are learning from the meaning of Arabic today.<<

Now who will you choose Yusuf Ali or Pickthall as your scholar for interpreting the Koran?

>>Now, you should be able to use your common sense with
54:40 YUSUFALI: And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?

The Qur'an is easy to understand and remember because it is given in a beautiful melody and is easy to remember and recite.<<

Does having a beautiful melody and being easy to remember and recite make it also easy to understand? The nursery rhyme ‘Ringa, ringa roses, husha busha …' also has a beautiful melody, even three year olds can remember and recite it. But who except the three-year-olds understand it?

The Koran maybe easy to understand and remember in Arabic but what of the overwhelming majority of Muslims who have to make do with poor and disputed translations. How will they ever understand it if they do not struggle for years with classical Arabic? Depend on dishonest scholars who give their own spin to Koranic verses?

Does Allah want all non-Arabs to learn Arabic and its long forgotten word meanings? Allah could have made it easy on us by making Arabic the only spoken language on earth. Allah does say He has made Islam not to be a burden on its followers. Was Allah deceiving us? He does claim to be the best of deceivers.

>> The understanding of it is easy for us once we get it translated and interpreted by a knowledgeable scholar. ……..Now the Qur'an is the exact same Arabic from 1400 years so can't you see that new words have spawn up and old words that used to mean one thing may have fallen out of use or changed meaning based on changes in the way we live thru the ages???<<

Keith, Arabic is the language in which the Koran is written and preserved in Heaven. If Allah allows the meanings of His holy words to change according to the whims of its speakers, what is Allah's word worth?

>>Lastly, the sura about Abu Lahab: The father of flame. was in reference to the uncle of prophet Muhammad(PBUH). He threw some very, very, very hedious insults, injuries to prophet Muhammad and assaults as well as his wife.<<

Really? What about the hideous insults that Muhammad directed at their faith and holy idols. Why do you expect them to have tolerated those insults. Abu lahab and his wife only insulted a man, the Prophet insulted their holy symbols. Which is worse? Recall the murderous rage Muslims demonstrated at a few cartoons.

>> This sura gives Muhammad comfort that his enemies will be dealt with and justice will be served. "Abu Lahab had a fiery hot temper and ruddy complexion. He was one of the most inveterate enemies of early Islam." and "The lesson the sura conveys is that cruelty ultimately ruins itself. <<

With Allah Himself burning people to comfort the prophet, why have Muslims to come to the aid of this long-dead man for a few silly cartoons? Muslims do not seem to have much faith in Allah's ability to punish despite this cruel verse that is supposed to be melodious and easy to recite and understand.

>>The man who rages against holy things is burnt up in his own rage." paraphrase of Abdulah Yusef Ali translation.<<

Scholar Yusuf Ali has got it wrong again. The verse is saying that Abu Lahab will be burnt by Allah not by his own rage. And given the Prophet's vindictive nature he would have relished the thought of his uncle made into a torch in hell. Recall his looking for the body of another relative, Abu Jahal, and exulting when his head was thrown at his feet. Great prophet you have, Keith. A fine mercy to all mankind, he is.

Regards

Plato

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