Keith Williams: If everything is for the good why do Muslims complain of oppression?

Submitted by Plato (India), Nov 19, 2008 at 19:13

Keith, you wrote:

>>Yes, God has allowed the devil to do some things but only in accordance to God's will. God moves in mysterious ways and it is hard for us to understand his plan but remember that it is always for the good.<<

Keith what you have written above is very typical of people with religion on their brains. Have you considered it carefully? You admit God has allowed the devil to do his work according to His will. The devil is the creation of Allah. Therefore Allah is the creator of evil. Can you find a flaw in this reasoning? To then conclude that god moves in mysterious ways does not make sense. God created both good and bad so all that you see around you, including anything you consider evil are god's handiwork. No mystery and nothing hard to understand.

What is difficult to understand is your saying it is always for the good. If the crusaders killed thousands of Muslims, it for the good. If the US starved the children of Iraq it is for the good. If the Palestinians are under the boots of Israel, it is for the good. If Hitler killed millions it for the good. If Muslims killed millions to spread Islam, it is for the good. Is there anything at all that happens in the world that is bad????

You (Plato) wrote:

>>Allah permitted the evil one to do his job. The Koran tells you so:

038.082 83
YUSUFALI: (Iblis) said: "Then, by Thy power, I will put them all in the wrong,- "Except Thy Servants amongst them, sincere and purified (by Thy Grace)."

Yes but the key to this was:

"Except Thy Servants amongst them, sincere and purified (by Thy Grace)."<<

How do YOU decide that is the key? I would have thought that Satan's statement by Thy power is the key, because as always it is Allah's power that is the key.

The devil says He will not attack believers who are sincere and purified by His grace. This means that the rest of the population has been left to fend off evil all by themselves by the grace of Allah. Why then does Allah keep complaining about unbelievers so tiresomely in the Koran?

>>For example a beautiful example in Qur'an is the prophet Job. God allowed the devil to do his worst to Job to prove to us and teach us and test us and build us up and strengthen us up against the evil one.<<

This is another typical example of thinking clouded by religion (or is it Allah's grace?). The devil had probably missed out the fact that Job was among the purified by Allah. Why else would he waste his time on Job as he had said that he would tempt man using Allah's power except those who had received His protection?

>>Trust in God. In God we trust means something.<<

If you understand the import of 38:82-83 trust in Allah means nothing. You want to trust someone who allows the devil to use His power to create havoc among people??

>>God allows mankind to learn-partly by firsthand experience-that the only way of life that will work is the way of life He reveals in His Word, the Qur'an and the Bible.<<

The wisdom of what you have said escapes me. 38:82-83 reveals to me that first hand experience counts for nothing as the devil is allowed to use Allah's power to do his (and His) dirty work.

>>That lesson will not be complete until all of humanity has learned that "every word" of God's revealed instructions is vital to our physical, mental and spiritual well-being. <<

Allah has this wonderful plan and He is implementing it (often using His ex-faithful angel, Satan). Since Allah's plan cannot possibly go wrong what are you faithful followers worrying yourself to death for?

>>No alternative way of life achieves God's purpose or ultimately leads us to happiness.<<

You stated early on that whatever happens, though hard to understand, is always according to Allah's plan and it always leads to good. So even if I choose an "alternative way of life" it should lead me to heaven (hell is not good, I suppose).

>>And [remember] Job, when he cried out to his Sustainer, "affliction has befallen me: but Thou art the most merciful of the merciful!" Whereupon We responded upon him and removed all the affliction from which he suffered; and We gave him his family, doubling their number as an act of grace from Us, and as a reminder unto all who worship Us.
Qur'an 21:83-84<<

Allah has done a nice job on Job. He (or his ex-faithful angel, the devil) creates hell on earth for the poor man and instead of cursing his tormentors he grovels in front of Allah and calls Him the most merciful. Like the imperious dictator that He is, Allah promptly removes Jobs afflictions and doubles his worldly pleasures as compensation. What a wonderful story!

>>"Commemorate Our servant Job behold he cried to his Lord: "The Evil One has
afflicted me with distress and suffering"! (The command was given:) "Strike
with thy foot: here is (water) wherein to wash cool and refreshing and
(water) to drink." And We gave him (back) his people and doubled their
number as a Grace from Ourselves and a thing for commemoration for all who
have Understanding."
Quran 38:41-43<<

Just more of the same as often happens in the Koran. Poor Job, he had no way of knowing that the Evil One had special permission from Allah to do his dirty work on him.

>>O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever! Deuteronomy 5:29<<

You are quoting the OT. The Koran is nothing if not a mish-mash of it. This verse is interesting in that it reveals Allah's desire to be feared. And typically there is the ever present threat of what would happen if you did not.

>>Submission or surrender to God is a theme especially prominent in Islam, whose name means Submission; but it is also an important theme of all the Abrahamic faiths and other eastern faiths.<<

Abrahamic faiths are all about submission, groveling is perhaps more correct, in the face of whatever torture Allah wishes to throw in your way. I was not aware that Eastern faiths (are they faiths?) had any such concept. From what I know they rarely ask for submission to any almighty on an almighty ego trip.

>> The virtue of obedience to God is particularly significant in the Abrahamic religions, which envision God as a Person who acts in history and in the lives of individuals.<<

What virtue do you find in obedience to a Being who acts in history via wars, ethnic cleansing, pestilence, tsunamis and in the lives of individuals in the form of rapes, murders and incurable diseases?

>> In Eastern religions we also find passages calling us to conform to the will of Heaven and to conform our will to the nature of Ultimate Reality.<<

Conform to the will of Heaven? You have no clue to what Eastern religions are all about.

It is not about conforming our will to the nature of Ultimate Reality. It is about realizing that the Ultimate Reality is within ourselves.

>>O you who believe! Fear God as He should be feared, and die not except in a state of Islam. Qur'an 3.102 <<

The constant refrain of Allah. FEAR me or else!

>>And now, Israel, what does the Lord your God require of you, but to fear the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, and to keep the commandments and statutes of the Lord, which I [Moses] command you this day for your good? Deuteronomy 10.12-13 <<

The verse shows up the Koran as just a bad cut and paste job of the OT. At least this God is only speaking to the Israelis. He is not telling the rest of us to fear Him.

Regards

Plato

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