Keith Williams: Are you saying the Koran is an abridged version of the tablet in Heaven?

Submitted by Plato (India), Nov 22, 2008 at 20:55

Keith, you wrote:

>>God's plan and purpose is beyond our comprehension<<

Keith have you read the verse: 061.009 YUSUFALI: It is He Who has sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth, that he may proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it). (Pikthal says ‘conqueror' and Shakir says ‘overcome' instead of ‘proclaim')

You see Allah's plan and purpose in this verse: to make Islam the only religion on earth.

>> We have some revelations but not all. <<

Muslims claim that the Koran is an exact copy of the tablet in heaven. Are you saying that Muhammad was given only an abridged version?

>>No one knows when the day will come. Only him. We are being tested here.<<

Allah is known to be very secretive about all his projects and plans. What are we being tested for? Reading the Koran one gets the feeling that Allah wants us to believe blindly in Him. The main test is whether we faithfully and regularly worship Him and whether we dare join any partners with Him in our prayers. If we associate anyone with Allah then we would have failed the test miserably however well we perform in other parts of the examination. The Examiner-in-Chief also tells us in many places that Heknows exactly how we will answer the test!

>>We just have to trust in him my friend and follow his commands.<<

Will you trust anyone who claims he will misguide you? 006.125 YUSUFALI: Those whom Allah (in His plan) willeth to guide,- He openeth their breast to Islam; those whom He willeth to leave straying,- He maketh their breast close and constricted…….

Are you willing to follow these commands of Allah:

005.051 YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

009.029
YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdue

Keith are you going to come back and give me the shibboleth of context and fossilize these verses?

>> Don't be disobedient and arrogant or you will be humbled like the ones before us. If not in this life then on judgment day.<<

Keith if you are not following the commands in verses 5:51 and 9:29 you are being disobedient and arrogant. The Koran has described in excruciating detail what Allah will do to you for being disobedient.

>>Look at history like you said. Do you see the common trends? Immorality, disobedience, arrogance, etc.. then the wrath of God and all those nations were destroyed.<<

What is your concept of immorality? That of the Prophet of Allah, Muhammad? Let us take the Koran and hadith and read about the morality of the prophet, the ‘shining light' for all humanity:

033.050
YUSUFALI: O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful

Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."

Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 37:

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
It was said to the Prophet, "Won't you marry the daughter of Hamza? "He said, "She is my foster niece (brother's daughter)."

Muslim: Book 008, Number 3432:

Abu Sa'id al-Khudri (Allah her pleased with him) reported that at the Battle of Hanain Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) sent an army to Autas and encountered the enemy and fought with them. Having overcome them and taken them captives, the Companions of Allah's Messenger (may peace te upon him) seemed to refrain from having intercourse with captive women because of their husbands being polytheists. Then Allah, Most High, sent down regarding that:" And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess (iv. 24)" (i. e. they were lawful for them when their 'Idda period came to an end).

When the prophet wanted to marry a woman nothing could stand in his way. He wanted to marry his adopted son's wife. Mohammed had Allah send him this dispensation:

033.036
YUSUFALI: It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path.
033.037 Behold! Thou didst say to one who had received the grace of Allah and thy favour: "Retain thou (in wedlock) thy wife, and fear Allah." But thou didst hide in thy heart that which Allah was about to make manifest: thou didst fear the people, but it is more fitting that thou shouldst fear Allah. Then when Zaid had dissolved (his marriage) with her, with the necessary (formality), We joined her in marriage to thee: in order that (in future) there may be no difficulty to the Believers in (the matter of) marriage with the wives of their adopted sons, when the latter have dissolved with the necessary (formality) (their marriage) with them. And Allah's command must be fulfilled.

Allah's law on the iddat period is kicked aside too. He married a woman of the book, Juwairiya, the same day he had her husband tortured and killed.

I have given you examples of the immorality, disobedience to the laws of Allah, and arrogance the prophet demonstrated. Is this why the Arab and Muslim culture are in the doldrums now?

>>If all of the examples of death and destruction that has happened to all the great nations in the past and all of the nations now and in the future is not a warning to you then I guess you failed the test.<<

Read the examples I have given and tell me whether the prophet has passed the test with flying colours.

>>It has been revealed that all the bad things in history was brought own ourselves each and every time.<<

This what Allah says:

003.145 YUSUFALI: Nor can a soul die except by Allah's leave, the term being fixed as by writing.

Is Allah saying that only our death is fixed in writing? You know very well Keith, that Allah knows in advance everything that happens, which necessarily implies He is responsible for them because He is the Creator. Keith, tell me whether when Pompei disappeared under the lava from Vesuvius the women and babies in their arms and bellies were also killed by Allah for all the bad things they did?

Inserting a verse in the Koran saying He is responsible for all good and washing his hands off evil is not going to convince anyone except Muslims:

4:79SHAKIR: Whatever benefit comes to you (O man!), it is from Allah, and whatever misfortune befalls you, it is from yourself, and …

>>We all need to wake up. If not then we will continue to make the same mistakes as nations and people and the same wrath will fall upon us. God willing, we all will learn to stay away from the wrath of God.<<

Yes we, especially the Muslims need to wake up. Muslims must look at verses like 9:28, 9:29 and 9:111 and wake up to the fact they are following a religion that has utter contempt for those who are disbelievers to the extent of calling for their physical elimination for a great physical rewards when they die.

Regards

Plato

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