It Jesus' Choice to Die

Submitted by Servant of Christ (United States), Oct 31, 2007 at 19:46

Dear S_of_Christ,

I am not overcomplicating the matter. I am attacking your fundamental flaws in your sin,saving,hell,heaven etc., (You are just evading the doubt that it does not work that way. I am overcomplicating the matter. You go your scriptures and tell me if I am not right?)

When you 'over-literate' figurative speech, that is complicating the matter.

WHY JESUS WHOSE FATHER (NOT MOTHER?) IS GOD CANNOT SAVE HIMSELF FROM THE CROSS? Your answer will be that we cannot comprehend.

Because he chose to wash away our sins and fulfill the prophecies.

His death did not mark his weakness; it marked his love for us.

Jesus prophesied his own death

"The Son of Man is going to be betrayed into the hands of men. They will kill him, and after three days he will rise." (Mark 9:31) NIV

Death has no hold on my God, for he was risen on the third day.

Jesus who is believd to be the Son of GOD( GOD is father. Why can't he be Mother, Because patriarchal system was existent that time.) could not svae himself from a simple cross. (It was assumed that his Father God has created the whole universe within 6 days, inclusive of the humankind.,) Why can't the God have appeared in person to the perpretators of the Criminals against the Christ. Or he could have appeared as another person to save his son from the cross.

Several biblical concepts must be taken into account.

Yes, man did symbolize authority and that is why Jesus called God, "Father" and that was why Jesus became MAN. Does this mean women are inferiors? No, for though the Father has authority over the Son, they are both equals.

Jesus chose to die as according to the prophets.

God had to have Jesus die in order to wipe away the sins of man. The punishment for sin is death, and God paid that price so that you and I didn't have to be judged.

If Jesus hadn't died, then you and I would face a lot of trouble.

It is believed thet he has been resurrected after 3 days. Where is he then? ( Your answer will be them that he is living in the hearts of the Christians. It is same as Communist radicals believe in he Guevaera after his martyrdom.) They also tell that they live in their hearts.

No, he is in Heaven. It is actually the Holy Spirit who dwells within our hearts. What? Do you disbelieve the actual event of the Resurrection? If Jesus did indeed rise, then where he is now has no relevance.

You have created stories upon stories and when they are refuted come with vague answers like incomprehensible, eternal, U have to believe then only you will understand. God has given us the intellect and reasoning to seperate the false from the truth. Your doctrines are false and they do not justify Human reasoning.

I agree that God gave us reasoning, but thus far you have been unable to understand literal and figurative speech.

I will address your arguments elsewhere.

See the fallacies yourself; How can an omnipotent God can create such mistakes.

GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day.

Two possible interpretations.

1. God could have been the provider of light.

2. The writer speaks from the perspective of a human on the 'earth' viewing the event. On the first day, light was seen, but the writer was unable to see through the fog or atmosphere that blurred the image. Simply stated, on the first day the atmosphere was translucent so it allowed light to enter the earth but it was not clear enough to see the source (ie. sun, stars, etc). It was on the fourth day in which the atmosphere became transparent and so the view of the sky became clear.

GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.
GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created.

I warned you against using infidels.org material (if you are not using that website then I apologize, although the quality is that of infidels.org).

The verse says plants/shrubs of the FIELD. Since man tilled the field, there were no field crops until AFTER man's creation.

The 'Two Creation Story' Argument is ignorant of Jewish writing styles. The Hebrew writing styles began with a broad, summary (ie. Genesis 1) and then narrowed in with great detail in a specific event (ie. Genesis 2).

Genesis 2 SUPPOSES that several Creation days had already passed in Genesis 1. Genesis 2 BUILDS ON what Genesis laid as a foundation. It would be apparent seeing that Genesis 2 contains water, an earth, and the Garden of Eden.

GE 1:20-21, 26-27 Birds were created before man was created.
GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before birds were created.

Verse 19 of Genesis 2 uses the PLUPERFECT tense of English which means that the animals HAD BEEN CREATED ALREADY. As stated earlier, Genesis 2 is still part of Genesis 1. The addition of chapters was not invented until recently. There would have been no reason to suspect separate accounts because of this information. Together 'Genesis 1 and 2' (which was really just Genesis since chapters were not invented yet) would have been ONE ACCOUNT.

GE 1:24-27 Animals were created before man was created.
GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before animals were created.

See above.

GE 1:26-27 Man and woman were created at the same time.
GE 2:7, 21-22 Man was created first, woman sometime later.

Nowhere in Genesis 1:26-27 does it say they were made at the same time. The same day, yes but not at the same time. Simple analogy:

"Humans invented the computers and television."

"Humans first made the television and later developed the computer."

Is there a contradiction? No, it's just that the second sentence gave more detail. As stated earlier, the Hebrew writing style zoomed in on the sixth day and went into greater detail than that of Genesis 1.

GE 1:28 God encourages reproduction.
LE 12:1-8 God requires purification rites following childbirth which, in effect, makes childbirth a sin. (Note: The period for purification following the birth of a daughter is twice that for a son.)

Nope, God requires CEREMONIAL purification not purification from sin. Here's the difference in ceremonial purification and purification from sin.

Ceremonial purification: Touching a dead body, leprosy, etc

Purification from sin: Lying, stealing, lusting, etc

Ceremonial uncleanliness was not sin. It was only sin when a person engaged in 'unclean' acts to purposely disobey the regulations.

There is no mention about the creation of TIME. The writers possibly could not comprehend that future Genarations will have doubt about it.

There is a mention of "In the Beginning". That is time, for time begins with a beginning. And as you have noticed, it does not mention a date of Creation.

These are all stories to install fear among people.

Genesis 1 and 2 are stories to install fear?

The admisssion that I am a Sinner is the first mistake committed by any to-to-be believers. Nobody are sinners in the world by Birth. You start from an imaginary sin, Then the man has to agree for saving. How can he be saved. By believing in Christ ( who could not be saved himself or his Father). Otherwise Hell.One story proceed to another.

If you are not born a sinner, then can you honestly confess to me that you have never done ANYTHING wrong? Sure, our standards of distinguishing right and wrong are different but I'm interested to know.

The story can be retold like this:

All Human Beings are Sinners.

The sinners will be punished on Judgement day.

The escape from in his believing in Christ.

(That also does nor guarantee, since Grace is required. The Grace term is invented to include all those before Christ, otherwise those cannot be explained.)

Wrong, Grace is for everyone. As I stated earlier, I am saved by grace, for if I was judged by my actions, I would be found a wicked sinner. And if you check on Genesis 3:16, it foreshadows Christ's victory over evil.

The persons without Grace will be awarded Hell and those with Grace will be given Heaven.

Regarding Time the explanation is vague. S_of_Christ is telling it will be recreated again.

I said Creation would be created again. Time on the other hand, I do not know but I assume it would continue.

God who took one day to create light and darkness took only one day to create the universe.

Your point?

By the way is the day consists of 24 Hours or that of other planets? Suppose there are beings equivalent to humans in other planets would not God bre partial?

Being that the writer is a human and would use measurements common to man, it is illogical to say that he would use the 'day' for Venus or another planet. Whether it is 24 hours or not is unclear and irrelevant.

First prove that there are other sentient beings on foreign planets.

See the days differences in the planets of Solar system.( Forget about other systems.)

Believe your beliefs yourself, but problems come when you are starting to propagating it.

The truth applies to all, not just to me. If I know the truth and do not share it with those who do not know then am I being right?

Don't be inconsistent. You said not to propagate beliefs BUT by saying that you are propagating your belief that I should not propagate mine. That would be hypocrisy so I beg you to reconsider your position.

Regards,

Shri Devi.

God Bless You Shri Devi

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