something nice to read

Submitted by December Rain (Lebanon), Jun 23, 2006 at 03:42

Hello again

I see that some people replied to my topic,

First concerning Abu Yazan's reply I must say that it proved what I was saying about how Islam views Christians and jews : Islam LABELS Christians and jews so this alone makes it very hard for a muslim believer to be tolerant for other religions….

Second you say that god was angry with the jews and he expelled them etc….. well I must remind you that in the old testament God was angry at the jews many times. and each time he gave them another chance because God is merciful so what the heck makes you think that God is still Wrathful at the jews, unless you live in God's mind and know what he thinks.

You say that you Muslims know that jesus was not crucified. So I will allow myself to say that KNOWING is a big word. Based on what you know that ? i guess you know that based on the Koran right ? well let me remind you that basing your arguments on your belief in the Koran is not an efficient way to prove me wrong because i do not believe in Koran. The Koran is not some kind of Physics book that everybody believes in. so you can't convince a non muslim by referring to the Koran all the time. you must provide some general/scientific guidelines about this issue and then we'll see if it agrees with what the Koran is saying then your religion will be the true religion. But I don't think you will be able to provide such evidence because I debated about this issue over and over again with muslims and their only reference is the Koran !

In contrast, as a Christian and aside from the bible, I can provide you with dozens of historical documents and scientifically authentic manuscripts proving that Jesus was crucified, and this also applies to the bible : the original texts are still present and available and top scientists in the world checked them with various methods (if u want to know the methods let me know J) .

Concerning what you said about the church changing the bibles : this is pathetic ! I challenge you to bring two different copies of the bible from different years . I assure you that you won't find any. And this is based on a personal observation because I have seen bibles that date back to more than 200 years and they are still the same as the ones seen today.to this I also add that muslims are the ones who have a problem of authenticity specially concerning Hadith I mean sunnis and Shiites use 2 different versions.

Now you say that muslims love Christian and I quote :' shame on you, living in Islamic country and being treated equally with no difference, and you are not grateful for the comfort you live in."

This indeed makes me laugh. you want me to be grateful because I am being treated equally (which is not the case) . am I not a citizen of the same country ? isn't this a right for me ?? or I am different because I am Christian ? well my friend let me remind you that we Christians existed in these countries you call Islamic hundreds of years before Islam ever existed. And the mere fact that you make a big deal out of Christians being treated equally and you referring to a country as Islamic proves how intolerant muslims are. By making a country Islamic your are denying the right for being different , you are denying freedom of belief (but I don't think this exists In your dictionary).

I said the above by taking the position of a coptic Christian : but I am not a coptic Christian I am a christian from the only arab (some might debate that) country where Christians still have some dignity. I am a proud Lebanese and Lebanon will never be an Islamic country even if you breed like Ants.

Abu Yazan you told me to read history and see that Christian held many important positions during Islamic reign , Well I will teach you some history : Christian held these positions not because of muslim good will it was for many other reasons:

First, Muslims did not become the majority in the arab and middle eastern world until the 10^th century, for example around the 8^th century which is during the abassid era Iran was still more than 70% non muslim (that includes pagans and Christians and jews) this also applies to all nearby countries. So they couldn't have marginalized more than 70% of the population.

Second, Christians held these positions because they had certain skills (which muslims didn't have) needed by the Caliphate : for example all the scientific advancements wouldn't have been impossible to make if it wasn't for Greek primary texts which were present in monasteries and only possible to translate by Christians, All greek texts were translated from Greek to Syriac (which is a language only known by christians) then from syriac to Arabic. Concerning medicine , most doctors were Christians because most medical texts were in Syriac only spoken by Christians (ex: Nestorian christians) Accounting needed in taxation was also dependent on Christians and jews etc……so it was out of need that Christians held these positions.

Concerning Christians being treated equally under Islamic reign : NO this is not true , from history we know at least that Christians and jews were overtaxed this is one of the reasons (other than the sword during Islamic conquests) that caused conversions to islam especially in poor non muslim families.

I said in my previous posting that Christians are being persecuted in muslim countries and all you said is NO!! even though I spoke about the existence of specific cases so I will give you an example: what do you call the Events in lebanon specifically Beirut during Sunday the 5^th of February 2006 when angry (they're always angry) muslims vandalized Saint Maroun's church and Saint Nicolas Church ?

what do u call attacks against the copts and Saint Georges' Coptic cathedral in Alexandria ? what do u call slaughtering a missionary in tripoli and one in Saida 4 years ago, what do u call not allowing churches to be built in many Islamic countries etc …. You want some more examples ? if you do plz tell me, I have plenty.

Abu Yazan said and I quote : "Also until today many ministers are Christians in Arab Countries - if you take proportions being most of the Arab world are moslems you will find two or three minsiters are Christians, what , you want Christians to rule Moslem Countries is this Logic or fair." Let me tell you something , you have a sick view about how a country should be ruled , religion is not a criteria, people must not be segregated by their religion, religion is a private belief it is not political , Christians and muslims are both citizens of the same country they have the same nationality and rights so the only thing that should matter is their political inclinations and their competence and this is what should be taken into consideration when people vote. So if Christians constitute 5% of a country and for some reason they are more competent and more politically suitable they should rule and the same applies for muslims. This again proves how intolerant muslims are and how they are obsessed about labeling people based on their religion.

I did not say that Muslims are persecuting Christians because they are asking God to show Christians the corrects path so I don't see the meaning of Abou Yazan's last statement.

Now I will reply to what MOHAMMED said in his posting : yes indeed islam is very logical that's why Islamic countries still lag 1000 years behind other countries, even the ones that you despise most (the so called Pagans) ( like Japan and China) are ages ahead of you and are among the most advanced countries in the world .

Christianity is not being modified ! certain aspects of our daily lives are being differently interpreted to better suit modern life or you want us to live in the stone age.

Speaking about the stone age : once I was talking with some muslim guy during Ramadan he told me that in islam you are allowed to stop fasting if u are traveling, now in ancient times 40 Km was considered a long distance so if someone was going 40 Km he was considered traveling and thus allowed to stop fasting so this guys actually stopped fasting because he went 40 Km by car on the Lebanese coast which would take him around 30 minutes. Hmmmm wow all that for the sake of not changing religion!

Ok Homos are becoming priests hmmm interesting ...I Challenge you to give me just one text made by the church considering Homosexuality legal…. I think the Vatican's view about this issue is very clear so is the view of other christian sects You are making a serious statement so you must provide evidence.

You say that Christianity is being changed ? hah what do you call a FATWA made by a Muslim sheikh whenever he pleases ? during the last Lebanese elections some sheikhs made Fatwa to force muslim voters to vote for a certain candidate, I have a copy of one of these fatawa I can scan it and send it to you If you want.

What do u call the several new types of marriages made in Saudi Arabia to make a legal religious cover for prostitution: a man goes to a woman in a hotel and a sheikh marries them for one night and after it the marriage is automatically cancelled ! if you need more examples tell me I have plenty, and I want you to ask me because I really enjoy this after seeing what you say about christianity……..

You talk about pedophile priests ,hmmmm well I will also tell you to bring evidence because I really never heard of such cases on the other hand I can send you a picture of a muslim sheikh French kissing an 8 year old child. Which was published in newspapers and made quite a mess.

Finally, concerning Mohammed's last statement, Let me get this straight : in order to prove that Christians aren't being persecuted today you told me the story of a guy who lived 1000 years ago and your source is an article written 108 years ago.

Grow up !!!!

One last statement that just came to my mind : u say that Jesus was not crucified and that God made a trick to save him. then God's little trick or joke became the biggest religion in the world. God must have a cool sense of humor and most importantly he must be a very bad mathematician.

Peace!!!!

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