OT Violence?

Submitted by Servant of Christ (United States), Dec 28, 2006 at 11:26

I will not argue about the violence in the Quran due to my limited knowledge and because it's not that important.

The use of the word "friends" for Noble Verses 5:51 and 4:139 as a translation is ambiguous. It is not clear from the Noble Verses that Allah Almighty meant for "Awliyaa" to be only personal "friends". Certainly Noble Verse 5:56 above clearly shows that Allah Almighty is concerned about the Alliance that Muslims commit themselves to, and not personal friendships. And Muhammad himself killed Jews and had over 4 wives. Moses order the death of innocence children and women: 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. Numbers 31: 17-19 Solomon had over 700 wives in the Bible. So what are those verses of the Bible that command violence? Read Deuteronomy 13 which commands killing of prophets and destroying cities of other Gods.

Numbers 31 talks about victory over the Midianites. The Midianites were very sinful people and shortly after their loss to the Israelites, they began corrupting the Jews by turning them towards prostitution and pagan worship. That is why Moses ordered the death of the woman who had slept with the Israelites. We are unsure about the age of the 'boys' so I think saying that it was young children is an assumption. Solomon sinned because of his wives and was led astray. That is the fall of Solomon, his wives.

The verses in the Bible that command violence are as an act of judgement. The Israelites did not run around with a sword with a lust for conquest. Deuteronomy talks about the law. Not only was Deuteronomy a book about morality but also a book about the government. I'd like to add that the 'government' aspect of the Pentateuch no longer apply because of the New Covenant.

Prophets- It's not as if there are nations of prophets who are telling you to disobey your God. A new religion means a new set of values. Look at all the religions surrounding the Israelites. What are their practices? Witchcraft, sacrificing of children, idols, prostitution, homosexuality, brutality, and etc. Does God want his people to be like them? No. It is not God who is brutal but it is those who neighbor the Israelites.

Pagan Nations- The first verse says 'the land that God is giving you to live in'. This means that the Israelites were not going to march into Egypt or Babylon so that they could kill some people. God uses these conquests as judgement (and there weren't many). So if God has seen an exceedingly wicked city and said that he was giving it to Israel, only then can they attack. After they have taken over the land, if the people entice the Israelites (like say, the Midianites) then Israel can kill the people rebelling. Although it also says Israel must investigate these matters, so it wasn't as if it was an unfounded claim.

Violence in the Old Testament- God gave a very long span of time (about 400 years) for these nations to repent. God didn't tell the Israelites to fight 'innocent' nations. Please remember that all the nations knew of how God led the Israelites out of captivity:

and said to them, "I know that the LORD has given this land to you and that a great fear of you has fallen on us, so that all who live in this country are melting in fear because of you. 10 We have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red Sea for you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to Sihon and Og, the two kings of the Amorites east of the Jordan, whom you completely destroyed. 11 When we heard of it, our hearts melted and everyone's courage failed because of you, for the LORD your God is God in heaven above and on the earth below. (Joshua 2:9-11 NIV)

Since Rahab repented from the deeds of Jericho, she was spared. God gave prophecies and warnings to these nations giving them time to flee if they obeyed.

I'm more concerned about Islam's moral code rather than the violence. No matter how many wives Solomon had (God was displeased with it however), Solomon never said "A man may have only 10 wives". However, Muhammad said, "A man may only have 4 wives" yet he himself had more! Hypocritical?!? Why are women so mistreated? The intelligence and religion of a woman is half of that of a man? The woman receives half as much inheritance as the man? They need more female witnesses than male because the females might forget?

Why did Muhammad change his mind so many times? Muhammad himself doesn't know how God will deal with him. And his marrying of a 9 year old is wrong.

Going back to the false prophet thing we spoke of earlier, these are the words of Paul:

8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! (Galatians 1:8-9 NIV)

Remember that I said Peter, John, and James backed up Paul's ministry.

May the Love of Christ Bless You
I'd prefer to talk about Christianity since I can back it up easily because of Christianity's wealth of historical, archaelogical, textual, and logical evidence. I will gladly show you if you are interested.

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