Response to "Learn History"

Submitted by Servant of Christ (United States), Oct 8, 2006 at 10:02

Again you have to be grounded in history to give an intelligent response to my posts. Yes, the U.S. was attacked, but not by Iraq. This did not give them the right to invade Iraq. President Bush stated that he was following the footsteps of Jesus and most Christian leaders supported him in this statement. The best way to see Jesus is as a prophet of God. Associating him with God or calling him god is not doing him any favors. In fact on the day of judgement he is going to denouce making those statements and those who said those things about him.

You keep diverting the issue at hand. At least now you're trying to talk about Biblical matters.

With just a few words, I can thoroughly defeat half your argument.

Seperation of Church and State.

Now what History does say is that Islam conquered many nations in its early years. Well, sure, some people under the guise of Christianity have done wrong things as well. But, NOTHING IN THE BIBLICAL DOCTRINE JUSTIFIES THEIR DEEDS. However, Islam DOES justify such actions.

Violence:

[4.56] (As for) those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the chastisement; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise." [22:19-22] But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them, boiling fluid will be poured down their heads. Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning. [8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them. [9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection. [9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil). [4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward. [9:5] But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem Quran: [5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people. (Q. 2:191), to murder them and treat them harshly (Q. 9:123), slay them (Q.9: 5), fight with them, (Q. 8: 65 ) even if they are Christians and Jews, humiliate them and impose on them a penalty tax(Q. 9: 29). It orders its followers to fight the unbelievers until no other religion except Islam is left (Q. 2: 193). The holy Prophet demanded his follower to strike off the heads of the disbelievers then after making a wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives (Q. 47: 4). As for women the book of Allah says that they are inferior to men and their husbands have the right to scourge them if they are found disobedient (Q. 4:34). It teaches that women will go to hell if they are disobedient to their husbands (Q. 66:10). It maintains that men have an advantage over the women (Q. 2:228). It not only denies the women's equal right to their inheritance (Q. 4:11-12), it also regards them as imbeciles and decrees that their witness is not admissible in the court (Q. 2:282). This means that a woman who is raped cannot accuse her rapist unless she can produce a male witness. Muhammad allowed the Muslims to marry up to four views and gave them license to sleep with their slave maids and as many captive women as they may have (Q. 4:3). He himself did just that. This is why anytime a Muslim army subdues another nation, they call them kafir and allow themselves to rape their women. But What History Does Say is This: Pakistani soldiers raped up to 250,000 Bangali women in 1971 after they massacred 3,000,000 unarmed civilians when their religious leader decreed that Bangladeshis are unislamic. This is why the prison guards in Islamic regime of Iran rape the women and then kill them after calling them apostates and the enemies of Allah. According to Islam, this is completely morally sound. When I read the Bible, Jesus clearly prays to a higher being than himself, he fasts, and he denies knowing the day of judgement. He even tells someone when asked can a man see God, he states that no man has ever seen God. God does not need creation, but creation needs God. Jesus needed creation in order to live. He had to eat, sleep, drink and pray like ever other human being. In every single Gospel, Jesus is called the Son of God. What Others Have Said:
Matthew 27:43- "He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, 'I am the Son of God.'" Mark 8:29-30- "'But what aboput you?' he asked. 'Who do you say I am?' Peter answered, 'You are the Christ.'" Luke 1:35- "The angel answer, 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.'" John 19:7- "The Jews insisted, 'We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because according to this law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God.'" John 20:28- "Thomas said to him, 'My Lord and my God.'" Matthew 27:54- "Surely he was the Son of God!" Even the Demons acknowledge that Jesus was God! Matthew 8:29- "What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. Luke 4:33-34- In the synagogue there was a man possessed by a demon, an evil spirit. He cried out at the top of his voice, "Ha! What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are--- the Holy One of God!" What Scripture Says: John 1:1-4- 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. And it continues to say.... John 1:14- 14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. John 3:16- For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. So saying that all the Patriarchs are 'Sons' of God is untrue. I don't need to cite the many prophecies of the Bible that deal with the Messiah or the Christ. If you believe that Jesus was the Messiah/Christ, then you must accept that Jesus is God. What Jesus Has Said About Himself: "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you have granted him authority over all people that may give eternal life to all those you have given him. Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. John 17:1-3 Jesus is calling himself God's Son and he uses the name Christ. And it continues... (John 17:5) And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began. Jesus just said that he was there before the world began. That means he is either an angel or God. (God because the he verified himself as Christ) (John 4:25-26) The woman said, "I know that the Messiah (called Christ) is coming, When he comes, he will explain everything to us." Then Jesus declared, "I who speak to you am he." "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"(John 8:58) ...Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?" "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven." (John 14:61-62) 39You diligently study^[a] the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, (John 5:39) 9Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. (John 14:8-10) Saying that Jesus was the Son of God either makes him out to be a madman, a liar, or truly the Son of God. These are not extreme choices, but the only logical ones that he gives us. Jesus' actions also supported that he was the Son of God. He forgave sin. Only God can forgive sins. Jesus called himself the Son of Man, Resurrection and the Life, the Way, Bread of Life, Living Water, etc... God says that Jesus is his son: Baptism (Luke 3:21-22, Mark 1:10-11, Matthew 3:16-17) Transfiguration (Matthew 17:5, Luke 9:34-36, Mark 9:7) If you reject all these passages in the Bible (I only used the Gospels since that is what Islam deems from God) and do not accept Jesus as Christ/Messiah/Son of God then what will? It is clear that Jesus told us he was God (I didn't even pull all the other NT passages or OT prophecies). Now, the choice is yours, is Jesus truly God, a liar, or a madman? If you reject Jesus as Christ, then your accuser is Moses. (John 5:45-46) Jesus was man but he was also God. You must accept the dual nature of Jesus. I will make another post about Christianity and all its teachings, then one for Islam. Take your argument there if you wish. May the God, Alpha and Omega, the Great I AM, Bless You All

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