Response to "Natural Progression of Christianity"

Submitted by Servant of Christ (United States), Sep 22, 2006 at 18:42

"i'm sorry, contradictions you say? the bible has thousands of contradictions. MY OWN CHRISTIAN FRIENDS TOLD ME THERE ARE TOO MANY CONTRADICTIONS. so they became athiest."

That still fails to accomplish anything. Your friends say there are contradictions, okay I'll wait for them. But I'm pretty sure the answer I'll receive is something that has to do with different emphasis on perspective, poetic figures of speeches, or out of context.

"the biggest being the TRINITY. there is absolutely NO proof of the trinity in the bible."

True, the word trinity is never used. But the trinity exists because:

First, Deuteronomy 6:4, Isaiah 44:8 say there is One God. The word used in Hebrew means composite. So that means that this God is more than persons. This does not mean it is polytheistic. Think of space. Space is made up of the dimensions of length, width, and heigth. Without one of these, space is useless.

We can agree upon that the Son and Father exist right? Surely the Gospel has made it clear?

Most people have trouble understanding the concept of the Holy Spirit.

Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God." Acts 5:3-4 (so he does exist and is God)

The Holy Spirit is personal, "While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, "Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them."" Acts 13:2

He has his own will, "All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines." 1 Corinthians 12:11

He has emotions, "Yet they rebelled
and grieved his Holy Spirit.
So he turned and became their enemy
and he himself fought against them." Isaiah 63:10

Isaiah 48:16. "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me."

And of course the three persons of the Godhead are distinct. This is seen in the following,

Birth of Jesus, "The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month. For nothing is impossible with God."" (Luke 35:37)

Baptism of Jesus, "When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: "You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.""(Luke 3:21-22)

"as for Jesus being God. Jesus never once said "I am God worship ME"

"Then they all said, ‘Are You then the Son of God?' So He said to them, ‘You rightly say that I am'" (Luke 22:70).

"For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother" (Matthew 12:50).

"Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, ‘All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth'" (Matthew 28:18).

"Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God" (John 5:17-22)."I am the way, the truth, and te life. No one comes to the Father but by me" (John 14:6).

"Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God?" "Yes. it is as you say, "Jesus replied." (Mathew 26:63-64)

There were a bunch more verses about, "I am the Resurrection and the Life", "I am the Way", "I am One with the Father."

"in fact in Jesus' prayer he says "OUR FATHER, WHO ART IN HEAVEN, HEAVEN BE THY NAME (not MY name) THY kingdom come, THY will be done."

I don't see your point. The Son chose the lower position, wrapped his power in the rags of humanity, and was prophesied to glorify the Father. I don't see what you're trying to say. The prophets prophesied that Jesus is God such as in Isaiah and such. Remember that one of the prophets prophesied that, "They will be seeing still blind, they will be hearing but never understanding."

"does this sound like Jesus is praying to himself??"

The Jewish/Christian people lived in a what historians call a "high-context" society. That meaning, if Jesus Christ was known to be the Son, then he'd be known as God as well.

"ALL prophets, ALL messengers, came with One simple message. GOD is ONE. worship him."

I agree, although again, the word one means composite. Must we go back to the Hebrew text? If the God of Islam is one (non-composite) then I'm sorry but the Hebrew text do not back it up. I have trouble believing that Moses and Isaiah would lie about their God.

"and Muhammad(pbuh) came with the same message. He did not write the Quran, he was ILLITERATE."

Your point? How is the same message? Is it not obvious that the God of the Torah is not the God of the Qu'ran? Muhammed had revelations that only he saw right? I know, his followers wrote it.

"he recieved revelations from the angel Gabriel. who was ordered by God, to tell Muhammad (pbuh)"

Experts have said, "

There is evidence in a tradition which can scarcely have been fabricated that Muhammad suffered in early life from fits. Be that as it may, the adult Muhammad soon showed signs of a markedly religious disposition. He would retire to caves for seclusion and meditation; he frequently practiced fasting; and he was prone to dreams. Profoundly dissatisfied with the polytheism and crude superstitions of his native Mecca, he appears to have become passionately convinced of the existence and transcendence of one true God. How much of this conviction he owed to Christianity or Judaism it seems impossible to determine. Monophysite Christianity was at that time widely spread in the Arab Kingdom of Ghassan; the Byzantine Church was represented by hermits dotted about the Hijaz with whom Muhammad may well have come into contact; the Nestorians were established at al Hira and in Persia; and the Jews were strongly represented in al Madina, the Yemen and elsewhere. There can be no manner of doubt, moreover, that at some period of his life he absorbed much teaching from Talmudic sources and had contact with some form of Christianity; and it seems overwhelmingly probable that his early adoption of monotheism can be traced to one or both of these influences."

Anyone who has heard of Christianity knows of Gabriel.

"believe it or not, Muslims, believe in ALL the scriptures, ALL the prophets and messangers, from Adam, to Muhammad (peace be upon them ALL)"

Then why do you doubt the passages about the Messiah? The Messiah, Lord of Lords, King of Kings, Wonderful Counseler, Mighty God, and Prince of Peace?

"and We believe Jesus(pbuh) will return back to the earth, before the day of judgement NOT Muhammad"

And so does the Bible.

"we believe that we Muslims LOVE and respect Jesus, more than christians. because we believe what he believed."

Okay, now I'm confused. Jesus is the husband of the Church (not mosque). If you love Him, why do you label Him only as 'teacher' or merely 'prophet'. Jesus spoke of Himself, God spoke spoke of Him, the prophets spoke of Him, and the Apostles have recorded their testimonies.

"islam is the natural progression of christianity, and judaism. and the final religion."

I wouldn't say so. Judaism was the foundation. I think that is agreed upon. It's text was made up of 39 books. Christianity worships the same God as Judaism. Again, the text was made by many witnesses. And now, Islam, it has one person who tells others what to write. One book, one founder/'writer'.

Islam says Muhammed is greater than Jesus, I don't see his prophecies in the Bible calling him Almighty God. He married his stepson's wife did he not?

May God Bless You All.

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