Again, Christ not Muhammed

Submitted by Servant of Christ (United States), Oct 22, 2006 at 17:30

Servant of Chist ,like I said that I would defend the prophecy about the prophet like M

Moses stated that God told him: "I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account." (Deuteronomy 18:18-19).

This is Christ...

From these verses we conclude that the prophet in this prophecy must have the following three characteristics:

1) That he will be like Moses.

Yes.

2) That he will come from the brothers of the Israelites, i.e. the Ishmaelites.

Okay, this is where the chronology is messed up. The brother of the Israelites were the Edomites... Ishmael was the brother of Isaac. Jacob's brother was Esau.

And you seemed to have taken this out of context. Read before it:

The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him. (Deuteronomy 18:15)

That means within the Israelites -.-.

3) That God will put His words in to the mouth of this prophet and that he will declare what God commands him.

Prophet like Moses:

1. Both Christians and Muslims agree that both Moses and Muhammad (pbuh) had fathers and mothers. They both also believe that Jesus (pbuh) had only a mother and no father. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Way to be descriptive. This means EVERY prophet is like Moses. Why shouldn't Isaiah or Ezekiel be the Prophet? They had fathers!

2. Both Moses and Muhammad (pbuh) married and begat children. Jesus (pbuh) never married nor had any offspring. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Ezekiel, Isaiah, Hosea, and etc have wives too. So far, you prove nothing.

3. Moses (pbuh) was accepted by the Jews and to this day, as a nation, they accept him as their prophet. Muhammad (pbuh) was accepted by his people, and as a nation, over one billion Muslims around the world accept him as the prophet of Allah. Jesus (pbuh), however, was rejected by his people (the Jews) as stated in the Christian's own Bible: "He (Jesus) came unto his own, but his own received him not" (John 1:11) Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Muhammed was rejected by the Jews... What's your point? A bunch of prophets were accepted. Isaiah, Ezekiel, etc. Moses was rejected by most of the Jews, read Exodus and you will see that Moses is constantly rebelled against.

4. Both Moses and Muhammad (pbut) came with a new and comprehensive set of laws for their people. The law brought by Prophet Moses was named the Judaic Law, and the law brought by Prophet Muhammad was named the Shari'ah. Jesus (pbuh) however, as witnessed by Matthew, claimed to have not introduced any new laws, but to have come to renew the Law of Moses (pbuh) and to have neither added nor subtracted from it. In Matthew 5:17-18 we read: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Again, no. Moses gave the Old Covenant of circumcision while Jesus gave the New Covenant of baptism. There is proof for 'a new set of laws'. A new practice maybe but why would God change his morals?

5. Moses led his people in a secret mass exodus from their hometown to Median in an attempt to flee the persecution of their enemies. Muhammad (pbuh) too emigrated with his followers from their home town to Madinah in secret in order to flee the torture of their enemies. Jesus, however, never led his followers in a any sort of mass exodus from their hometowns. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Moses never led a secret mass... If so then let me say that Nehemial and Ezra could also be this prophet.

6. Moses was victorious over his enemies both morally as well as physically. Pharaoh was defeated by Moses and all of his army were drowned in the sea. Muhammad (pbuh) too met his enemies in battle and defeated them all. This too was a moral as well as a physical victory. Jesus (pbuh) on the other hand is claimed in the Bible to have been crucified by his enemies. Thus, his victory was only a moral one. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Muhammed had no spiritual victory apparently. Isaiah and Samuel could easily be this prophet.

7. Both Moses and Muhammad (pbuh) died natural deaths. Jesus (pbuh), is claimed by the Christians to have died violently on the cross. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Wow, every single prophet in all of history fit this criteria. Pick unique characteristics of Moses...

8. Both Moses and Muhammad (pbuh) lie buried in the ground. Jesus (pbuh), however, is claimed by the Christians to abide in heaven. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Every single prophet fits this.

9. Most Christians claim that Jesus (pbuh) is God. No Christian or Muslim, however, claims that Moses or Muhammad (pbuh) was God. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Every prophet fits this.

10. Both Moses and Muhammad (pbuh) began their prophetic missions at the age of forty. The Bible tells us that Jesus (pbuh) began at thirty. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

11. Christians claim that Jesus (pbuh) was resurrected after his death. Neither Muslims nor Christians claim that Moses or Muhammad was resurrected. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Every prophet fits this...

2) From the brothers of the Israelites:

Abraham had two sons, Ishmael and Isaac (Genesis 21). Ishmael became the grandfather of the Arab nation, and Isaac became the grandfather of the Jewish nation. The prophet spoken of was not to come from among the Jews themselves, but from among their brothers, i.e. the Ishmaelites. Muhammad (pbuh), a descendant of Ishmael, is indeed this prophet.

Again, the brothers of Israel/Jacob are the Edomites. And you missed the part which says, FROM WITHIN YOUR OWN BROTHERS.

Also, Isaiah 42:1-13 speaks of the servant of God, His "chosen one" and "messenger" who will bring down a law. "He will not falter or be discouraged till he establishes justice on earth. In his law the islands will put their hope." (Isaiah 42:4). Verse 11, connects that awaited one with the descendants of Kedar. Who is Kedar? According to Genesis 25:13, Kedar was the second son of Ishmael, the ancestor of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

This has nothing to do with Muhammed. It is still unknown whether the Arabs were descendants of Ishmael. A vague mention of a name does not mean that this man was a prophet.

3.) God will put his words in his mouth:

Also, this prophecy in Deuteronomy mentioned that this prophet will speak the words of God in the name of God. If we looked to the Holy Quran, we will find that all its chapters, except Chapter 9, are preceded or begin with the phrase, "In the Name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful."

So someone plagiarized from the Bible, what's your point?

Also, one notices from the Gospel of John that the Jews were waiting for the fulfillment of three distinct prophecies. The first was the coming of Christ. The second was the coming of Elijah. The third was the coming of the Prophet. This is obvious from the three questions that were posed to John the Baptist: "Now this was John's testimony, when the Jews of Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was. He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, "I am not the Christ." They asked him, "Then who are you? Are you Elijah?" He said, "I am not." "Are you the Prophet?" He answered, "No." (John 1:19-21). If we look in a Bible with cross-references, we will find in the marginal notes where the words "the Prophet" occur in John 1:21, that these words refer to the prophecy of Deuteronomy 18:15 and 18:18.2 We conclude from this that Jesus Christ is not the prophet mentioned in Deuteronomy 18:18. Because Jesus is the Messiah and he cannot be both.

Aha, the Jews mixed them up. Remember the Transfiguration with Elijah, Jesus and Moses? Also the Jews did not realize they were one and the same.

Now, time for me to refute your alleged similarities. First, about 8/10's of these similarities are similarities between the Prophets and Moses, that being said, any prophet could've been THE PROPHET.

You seemed to use the characteristics and definition of the CHRIST against him -.-.

So let's compare the unique characteristics:

Jesus and Moses both spent 40 days to prepare for their ministry.

Moses led Israel out of the chains of Egypt, Jesus led them out of the chains of sin.

Both taught how to be forgiven.

Both gave a covenant.

Moses gave the manna. Jesus was the bread of life.

Moses gave water from the rock, Jesus gave the living water.

The Muslims call Sura 30 the Great Prophecy: This is the very best prophecy them will bring forward in an attempt to prove Muhammad is a prophet"

Now I am going to prove that they his some prophecies in the Quran:

And after him We said to the Children of Israel, 'Dwell Ye in the promised land; and when the time of the promise of the Latter Days come, We shall bring you together out of various people." (17:105)

This is plagiarized from the Bible -.-.

5 Do not be afraid, for I am with you;
I will bring your children from the east
and gather you from the west.

6 I will say to the north, 'Give them up!'
and to the south, 'Do not hold them back.'
Bring my sons from afar
and my daughters from the ends of the earth- (Isaiah 43:5-6)

There are more verses concerning this.

The above verse prophecies the Creation of Israel and gathering of Sephardic, Ashkenazi and the Jews of many other different races in Israel proves the authenticity of this prophecy and hence Quran

"And when the rivers are made to flow into each other." (81:7)

Uhhh... Perhaps I'm an idiot but I just looked that up and I got this:

http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=simple&q1=81:7&size=First 100

http://muttaqun.com/quran/e/

"He has made the two bodies of water flow. They will one day meet. Between them there is a barrier; they cannot encroach one upon the other." (55:20,21)

Is this the passage?

He has let loosed the two seas (the salt water and the sweet) meeting together. Between them is a barrier which none of them can transgress.

There is no such thing as a sweet sea -.-.

http://muttaqun.com/quran/e/

This phenomenal prophecy is an excellent proof of truthfulness of Quran. It was beyond imagination of any one living 1400 years ago to even think of linking of oceans which we see today in Panama and Suez canals.

Uhhh... There is not even an implication that this is a prophecy. It sounds more poetic than prophetic... It even says, "He HAS" implying that it's past right? Well, during his time there was no Suez nor Panama canal -.-.

"And when various people are brought together." (81:8)

What book is this exactly?

My Online Qu'ran says:

And when the female (infant) buried alive (as the pagan Arabs used to do) shall be questioned.[]

http://muttaqun.com/quran/e/

Um, that is extremely vague and nothing compared to the Bible's prophecy.

Fast transport systems, telephone, satellite systems and internet have brought so close to each other proving the truthfulness of the holy Quran.

So vague...

It is He who has sent his messenger with guidance and the religion of truth and will make it dominate over all religions, in spite of the idol worshipers." (The Quran, 61:9)

It still has yet to dominate. So many nations of this world are ridiculing and laughing at Islam. Some domination.

Within decades the above promise became true. Islam prevailed. The two superpowers of the day, the Persian and the Roman empires crumbled at the hands of the Muslims and also Islam became dominate over all the pagan of Meccans.

Not very dominating now...

Sohail

Okay, apparently there is some lack of logic. You are trying to say the Jews believed in a Prophet, Elijah, and a Christ who were all distinct. Well, the Bible says otherwise:

"But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. 46If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?" (John 5:45-47)

John 1:45: "We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law."

John 6:14: "Surely this [Jesus] is the prophet who is to come into the World."

Acts 3:22: "Moses said, 'The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people...'."

Moses wrote about Jesus, not Muhammed. Both taught the people how to ask God for forgiveness. Read Hebrews.

May God Bless You All

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