Ben Othman:The Koran asks Muslims to worship the idols of Safa and Marwa

Submitted by Plato (India), Jun 16, 2012 at 05:29

Othman you wrote:

>>Plato--I presume you are one of those who worship idols.<<

Ben Othman you cannot know whether I am an idol worshiper or not but since you are a Muslim I do know that you worship idols because the Koran instructs you to. Now please read:

002.158 YUSUFALI: Behold! Safa and Marwa are among the Symbols of Allah. So if those who visit the House in the Season or at other times, should compass them round, it is no sin in them. And if any one obeyeth his own impulse to good,- be sure that Allah is He Who recogniseth and knoweth.

Allah saying 'compass them round, it is no sin in them' clearly indicates that some thought it was a sin. What would the point be in 'compassing' them unless they represented something holy?

Next time you go on haj or umrah when you run between Safa and Marwa know that they are idols (aka symbols) of Allah. Idols in other religions too are symbols of god. So welcome to the fold of idol-worshippers.

And what about the black stone millions of Muslims revere and love to touch and kiss just as idol worshippers do their idols? You circumambulate this piece of rock (seven times, I believe) just as Hindus and other pagans do their idols. You prostrate bow towards it five times a day. Muslims are the worst offenders if idol worship is considered a sin.

005.002 YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Violate not the sanctity of the symbols of Allah, nor of the sacred month, nor of the animals brought for sacrifice, nor the garlands that mark out such animals, nor the people resorting to the sacred house, seeking of the bounty and good pleasure of their Lord. …..

In the above verse Allah is telling you that there are symbols which are sacred like animals, garlands etc. How is this different from people who pay obeisance to sacred symbols of their gods?

As for me, I worship nothing, not idols nor a phantom in the sky. It may interest you to know that I was born into a Muslim family so I am an apostate worthy of being murdered for a direct entry to heaven (Muslims only need apply).

>>I have a policy of distancing myself from idol and stone worshipers who comment in the internet.<<

The Koran has instructed you to preach (do dawah). There is no better instrument than the internet to reach out to millions. So why do you deny yourself the pleasure of telling idol worshipers how sinful they are. If you stick to your policy of so distancing (mental apartheid?) you will have only Jews to communicate with as you will see below.

>>With fellow semetic religion believers, it is different for we believe in God <<

Idol worshipers also believe in god. Here is the most important Vedic chant, the Gayatri Mantra, from the sacred scripture of the idol-worshipping Hindus:

O God! You are Omnipresent, Omnipotent and Almighty, You are all
Light. You are all Knowledge and Bliss. You are Destroyer of fear, You
are Creator of this Universe, You are the Greatest of all. We bow and
meditate upon Your light. You guide our intellect in the right
direction.

Does it sound as though they are addressing a piece of stone? Allah cannot hold a candle to this concept of god, for unlike Allah, the Hindu god is the destroyer of fear. Allah puts fear into the hearts of those who believe in him. This god also guides in the right direction instead of misguiding like Allah in the following verse:

006.125 YUSUFALI: Those whom Allah (in His plan) willeth to guide,- He openeth their breast to Islam; those whom He willeth to leave straying,- He maketh their breast close and constricted, as if they had to climb up to the skies: thus doth Allah (heap) the penalty on those who refuse to believe.

I have shown you above why it is impossible to distance yourself from stone worshippers as you yourself worship stones, the kaaba, safa and marwa, though barefacedly denying it.

If you have ever peeked into a church you would have seen stone or clay images of Jesus and Mary to whom Christians would be earnestly praying. It is time you took Christians out of the groups whom you will debate which will leave you with only about 15 million Jews with whom you can have your internet discussions.

>>In your case, an idol worshiper . you just believe in rituals day in day out without THINKING what you are actually doing,<<

I am not an idol worshipper but I will defend others right to worship as they like. Take a look at your rituals. Let us begin with your daily prayers. In Malaysia you probably turn West to face the kaaba. But you forget the fact that the earth is spherical which means you are facing anything but the kaaba. It would not matter even if you faced East or North or South. You perfunctorily wash your hands, feet and mouth for ritual purification. The other parts of your body, especially your underarms, pubic and nether areas would be in a worse state than your hands, feet and face. So what is this ritual worth? Where is the need for your bowing, prostrating and turning your head right and left if what you are doing is trying to communicate with Allah? As to communicating with Allah when you pray you can use any verse in the Koran: So when you use a verse like:

5:51 O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.

This is an instruction to Muslims. What would be the point of repeating this back to Allah? Or what would be the point of praying using the verse where Allah allows Muhammad to marry Zainab his cousin and daughter-in-law (33:37)?

Are Muslims THINKING about what they are actually doing during the ritual of prayer?? Perhaps 80% of Muslims also have no clue to what the meaning of the words they are repeating like nursery rhymes mean. And Muslims do these meaningless rituals every day five times day. I can't think of any other religion with this density of rituals.

The yearly ritual of Ramadan is supposed to teach you virtues like forbearance, empathy etc. for those whom Allah has chosen to condemn to a life of hunger and illness and so on. Look around in the Muslim world and do you see Muslims, who despite spending nearly ten per cent of a year in this fasting ritual, have any superiority in these areas. Food intake in Islamic countries rises instead of going down during Ramadan.

Each year, the Egyptian economy slumps during the holy month. Workdays are cut short, and production and stock performance drop. At the same time, public consumption skyrockets, meaning more imports. Some of the additional goods go to the needy, as Islam prescribes.

All over the city, private individuals and charities set up colorful tents packed with free food. Yet too many Egyptians have turned Ramadan into an exercise in excess, says sociologist Said Sadek.

"We have 30 days of Christmas Eve full of banquets and food," he explains. "Egypt consumes three times its normal food consumption during the month of Ramadan." http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129105207

I can bet you my last Ringitt that the story of Ramadan is repeated in all Muslim countries, the excesses being worse in the oil-rich ones.

Now is it any wonder that Islamic economies are in the doldrums. Almost one tenth of the year you spend doing mostly nothing except eating during Ramadan. And every day you spend about an hour of productive time in the meaningless ritual of prayer.

The yearly ritual that Allah mandated to teach humility and other virtues to Muslims turns into a festival of gluttony. Muslims have plenty of rituals, and like many things Islamic, they serve the opposite of the purpose it was meant for.

The poor Somalis, Sudanese, Afghans, Yemenis continue to starve, Ramadan or no Ramadan. They probably live off Christian charity. Islam has taught Muslims nothing except rituals.

Conclusion: Muslim rituals are as useless as that of any other religion.

>>Just tell me you are a catholic . orthodox. coptic protestant or of whatever denomination or even Jewish and our dialogue will start.<<

Since you have no way of knowing who I really am why don't you just imagine I am Catholic and begin the dialogue?

Regards

Plato

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