Alcohlism Prohibited as per Nature

Submitted by Maqsood (Pakistan), Aug 13, 2007 at 03:12

Hello Plato,

>>P: I do enjoy a drink once in a while. I know plenty of unbelievers who never touch alcohol. And I know plenty of believers who drown themselves in alcohol. Go to Bahrain and UAE and you will see Saudis and other Arabs enjoying themselves at the bars. Smoking, drugs also cause havoc why has the Koran not foreseen them?

M: Plato ! thats what i can expect from you. Wat do you think, you do the right thing?? If some believer drinks it does not mean it is lawful in Islam. Islam prohibits every kind of alcohol and other things as you mentioned, especially those that causes unconciousness and forgets one the Allah Almighty.<<

P: I do not consider taking a glass or two of wine is a big sin or crime. Why does Allah need to be remembered. Is He afraid that His greatness will be lessened if humans do not remember him.

M: Leave Allah aside. U are saying a glass or two is not a big sin?? But it is sin. So how will you decide that it is big or small. Logically you should see its after effects. Now think that the data given below like sexual experience with a family member" found a 28 percent prevalence, with 50 percent of the contact between siblings and 30 percent of the sibling contacts involving force. Would it be possible without alcohol or alcoholism.

Now you and anybody who considers a glass or two, lawful or small sin, how will guarantee that he will never go beyond this limit. Who will stop you especially when you re upset by your girl friend or any business reason. you cant stop yourself or at least everybody cant do that…., So as a result one more person will go toward alcoholism and only then he can commit such inhuman acts.

>>P: Not just alcohol, but mind altering drugs like lsd, marijuana, heroin also do the same. You can of course claim they are also intoxicants, but you seem to be bothered more about alcohol.

M: Agreed ! they are all prohibited. The reason for mentioning alcohol is that it is the most drunk item. So what now?? What do you say about all these? Should one drink or use these?<<

P:Does any religion really approve of drinking? So what is the point of all this?

M: truly no religion…. But then why most of you people consider it lawful to drink (one glass or 100 glass). yoU will say you don't have any religion…., that's why I m putting all this information in front of you, so that you analyze and see what are you getting from this alcohol or alcoholism.

>>P:You have not quoted any source for claiming that most rapes were alcohol related or for your claim that 8% of Americans commit incest. Do you have any such statistic for incest in Islamic countries. I wouldn't be surprised if the figures are greater in them with women restricted to their homes and males only in contact with close female relatives.

M: See the references below:

1. Recently, the literature about child sexual abuse and incest has proliferated, but incest remains poorly documented because of its severe social stigma. One study of college students that defined incest as "a sexual experience with a family member" found a 28 percent prevalence, with 50 percent of the contact between siblings and 30 percent of the sibling contacts involving force. Another study of randomly selected women found that 16 percent had experienced exploitative incest before the age of 18. Blah. Blah……anxiety disorders, alcohol abuse and depression. (American Journal of Psychiatry, January 1992, vol. 149, p. 52.)<<

P: Maqsood, all your statistics don't mean anything unless you can quote similar studies for Islamic countries. Otherwise how does one know that this is unique to non-Islamic pig-eating, alcohol consuming countries.

M: Ok leave the muslim world ( this don't mean that I agree about figs in Islamic countries, I will provide those to u soon). Let them go their way.. But are not you scared of these figs in your countries. I believe you will not have any doubt now in these figs.. So what are the reasons to such inhumane things? This is so called civilized world. How a person having some little sense can do all this. Think honestly….analyze … and find the truth…. I believe u will know all realities of faith, civilization and Islam.

>>….D. Corwin (1990) cites that in London many believed that sexual 'congress' with a child would cure venereal disease. Of capital rape prosecutions between 1730 and 1729, 25% of the cases involved victims younger than 10 years old.

62% of females are sexually abused by age 18. Finkelhor, David and J. Dziuba-Leatherman. "Victimization of Children." American Psychologist Vol. 49:3 (1992): 173-183. 1896 in The Aetiology of Hysteria, Freud discusses his "Seduction Theory" acknowledging the sexual abuse and incest of children.<<

P:This is really interesting Maqsood. Can a child of 10 or less willingly agree to be married to a 50 year old man? If it was your daughter would you agree to such a mismatch? Would not the Prophet's marriage to Ayesha at age six and consummation at age 9 fall under sexual abuse. Also what about Mohmmed having sex with Safiya at age 17. Was it sexual abuse (re 62% of females are sexually abused by age 18)

Your report states that it was a capital offence to rape victims younger than 10 years. Do you really think Ayesha consented to sex when she was nine years old?

M: Instead of learning some lesson by seeing your face you are misguiding the humanity by putting these blemishes over our Holy Prophet PBUH. This is a pity Plato….

I will show you the truth about our Prophet.

His 1^st marriage was with Hazrat Khadija. At that time, Hazrat Khadija was 40 years old and had two sons and one daughter from her earlier husbands and Hazrat Muhammed PBUH was only 25 years of age. He at a young age married a woman who was married two times but both the husbands had died. Because near to him the criteria was virtue ness. And also He did not married to another woman until Hazrat Khadija lived. This loving and caring monogamous relationship continued for 25 years until her death. Muhammad, now over 50 years of age, married a relatively aged woman by the name of Saudah. It is thus important to note here that Muhammad's twenty five prime youth years were spent in purely monogamous relationship with a lady 15 years his senior. This speaks volumes about this man's piety and loyalty in spousal matters as well as about the fact that his later marriages could not have been motivated by any human wild sexual desires

Why don't you quote these examples???

Do you have any authentic reference for your saying (Prophet's marriage to Ayesha at age six and consummation at age)???

This is totally wrong data to misguide humanity. See below the true facts;

1.One can find a narrative in Bukhari (kitabu'l-tafseer) whereby Ayesha is reported to have said that she was a ‘young girl' at the time of revelation of the 54^th chapter of the Qur'an which came 9 years before Hijrah (around 612 A.D). Thus, according to this tradition, Ayesha was a young girl (Jariyah—as she calls herself and not an infant in which case she would be sibyah). Additionally, this narrative stands in direct contrast to the one reported on Ayesha's age by Hisham bin Urwah. This puts Ayesha's age significantly higher than 9 .
(Sahih Bukhari, kitabu'l-tafsir, Arabic, Bab Qaulihi Bal al-sa`atu Maw`iduhum wa'l-sa`atu adha' wa amarr).

2. According to many narratives, Ayesha participated in the battles of Badr and Uhud. No one younger than 15 was allowed to accompany the Prophet's army in the battle of Uhud. This applied across the board to all participants, men and women alike. The battle of Uhud took place around the 2^nd Hijrah, a time line close to her marriage with the Prophet. Obviously, she was at least older than 15 at that time.

3. A narrative regarding Ayesha's participation in the battle of `Uhud is given in Bukhari, (Kitabu'l-jihad wa'l-siyar, Arabic, Bab Ghazwi'l-nisa' wa qitalihinna ma`a'lrijal; that all boys under 15 were sent back is given in Bukhari, Kitabu'l-maghazi, Bab ghazwati'l-khandaq wa hiya'l-ahza'b, Arabic).

4. Most historians have consensus on the age of one of the oldest female companions of the Prophet, namely, Asma, the elder sister of Ayesha that was ten years older than Ayesha. It is also reported in Taqri'bu'l-tehzi'b as well as Al-bidayah wa'l-nihayah that Asma died in 73 Hijrah when she was 100 years old. Clearly, if Asma was 27 or 28 years old at the time of Hijrah, Ayesha was 17 at the time of Hijrah and 19 at the time of consummation of her marriage with Muhammad.

(For Asma being 10 years older than Ayesha, see A`la'ma'l-nubala', Al-Zahabi, Vol 2, Pg 289, Arabic, Mu'assasatu'l-risalah, Beirut, 1992. Ibn Kathir confirms this fact, [Asma] was elder to her sister [Ayesha] by ten years" (Al-Bidayah wa'l-nihayah, Ibn Kathir, Vol 8, Pg 371, Arabic, Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al-jizah, 1933). For Asma being 100 years old, see Al-Bidayah wa'l-nihayah, Ibn Kathir, Vol 8, Pg 372, Arabic, Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al-jizah, 1933). Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani also has the same information: "She [Asma (ra)] lived a hundred years and died in 73 or 74 AH." Taqribu'l-tehzib, Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani, Pg 654, Arabic, Bab fi'l-nisa', al-harfu'l-alif, Lucknow).

5. Tabari informs in his treatise on Islamic history that Abu Bakr had four children and all four were born during the pre Islamic period. The pre-Islamic period ended in 610 A.D, a fact that makes Ayesha to be at least 14 years of age at the time of her marriage around 613-624 A.D.

Tarikhu'l-umam wa'l-mamlu'k, Al-Tabari, Vol 4, Pg 50, Arabic, Dara'l-fikr, Beirut, 1979).

6. Ibn Hisham, the historian, reports that Ayesha (ra) accepted Islam quite some time before `Umar ibn al-Khattab which only means that Ayesha (ra) accepted Islam close to the time of first revelation (around 610 A.D). This means she must have been at least a young girl at that time. Assuming she was barely 6 or 7 at that time this information puts the age of Ayesha at 20 or more at the time of her marriage with Muhammad (623-624 A.D.), (Al-Sirah al-Nabawiyyah, Ibn Hisham, vol 1, Pg 227 – 234 and 295, Arabic, Maktabah al-Riyadh al-hadithah, Al-Riyadh).

7. Tabari reports that before migrating to Habashah, Abu Bakr planned to hand over his daughter, Ayesha to Mut'am's son to whom she was engaged. But fearing persecution by the Quraish, Mut'am refused and his son divorced Ayesha. The migration to Habashah happened 8 years before Hijra. Obviously, at the time she was ready to take on responsibilities as a wife. If she married Muhammad in the 2^nd Hijrah (623-624 A.D), she could not be less than 19 years of age (a secondary reference for this argument is: Tehqiq e umar e Siddiqah e Ka'inat, Habib ur Rahman Kandhalwi, Urdu, Pg 38, Anjuman Uswa e hasanah, Karachi, Pakistan).

8. A famous Sunni imam, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, reports in His Musnad, that after the death of Khadijah, Khaulah came to the Prophet (pbuh) and advised him to marry again. She had two propositions for the Prophet: Either Muhammad could marry a virgin (bikr), or he could go for woman who had already been married (thayyib)". Khaulah named Ayesha for a virgin (bikr). It is common knowledge that the term bikr in the Arabic language refers to a well formed lady and not to a 9 year old, playful, immature lass. If she were nine, the word used by Khaulah would have been jariyah and not bikr.

(Musnad, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Vol 6, Pg 210, Arabic, Dar Ihya al-turath al-`arabi, Beirut).

9. Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani has reported that Fatimah, Muhammad's daughter, was five years older than Ayesha and that Fatimah was born when the Prophet was 35 years old. Thus, Ayesha, according to Ibn Hajar, was born when Muhammad was 40 and consummated her marriage when he was 54 or 55. That makes Aysha at least 15 years of age.

(Al-isabah fi tamyizi'l-sahabah, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, Vol 4, Pg 377, Arabic, Maktabatu'l-Riyadh al-haditha, al-Riyadh,1978)

Finally, it must be pointed out that Ayesha's age at the time of her marriage has never been an issue. If it were, his enemies must have picked up on this issue as they did to him on some other issues. Also, you must note that none of these Hadith reports concerning Ayesha's controversial age of marriage with the Prophet goes back to the Prophet himself. In other words, it is not the Prophet himself who said Ayesha was 6 or 9.

>>…More than 60 million adult survivors of incest and sexual child abuse live in America. *Note these are only reported cases. It is believed as great as 50% of sexual child abuse is unreported. Forward, 1993<<

P:Why are there no studies on incest and child abuse in Muslim countries. Your statistics are meaningless for this discussion without the availability of such studies. Are the Islamic countries ashamed of what such a study will reveal?

M : I will ask you that your so called NGOs and UN can get involved in the human right issues in the remote tribal areas of Pakistan then why they are unable to provide such data in Pakistan???

There are hundreds of surveys carried out in Islamic countries regarding child labour, woman rights etc. Even a single incident of rape in balochistan was so popular in your media??? whysuch reports could not be generated??? For your information that lady was invited to world trip.

In last Thursday a survey was carried out by US backed think tank to analyze that whether Musharraf will be elected in uniform or not??? I askwh y the survey regarding incest could not be possible in entire history.

>>99% of sexual abuse survivors know their perpetrators-80% are abused by family members, 19% are abuse by other trusted adults. CCPA, 1992

Of 50 male sexual abuse survivors, many were as young as 8 years old. FBI Uniform Crime Report, 1991.

96% of female rape survivors were younger than 12 years old and knew their attackers. U.S. Department of Justice, 1992.

A study of 10,000 female children under age 18 raped in 1992, reports that 3,800 girls were under 12 years old. U.S. Justice Department, study conducted in 11 states and the District of Columbia, June 1994.

Of teenage, unwed mothers, 60-67% were incest survivors. Los Angeles Times survey, 1993<<

P:As I have said before when quoting such figures also quote figures for Islamic countries. There is no point in discussing these figures when discussing Islam if such statistics are not available or more correctly if such statistics are not allowed to be revealed by Muslim countries.

M: there is no need to discuss. These figures are self explaining….. Plato! Are not you horrified from these??/ Don't you consider them true??? What are their reasons, think honestly. Where you people are going??? What is next??

>>96% of teenage prostitutes were sexually molested in childhood. CCPA, 1992. Almost 80% had become prostitutes before age 18. Ibid. *60% of prostitutes were 16 or under; many were younger than 13. Ibid…..

….In the U.S. in 2000 over 3 million child abuse and neglect reports were filed and one million were confirmed. There are 3,000 children abused each day and four of them will die. Forty % of these children were under the age of six…….Types of maltreatment included:1

Neglect (including medical neglect) 61%
Physical Abuse 19%
Sexual Abuse 10% (90,600 children)
Psychological Maltreatment 5%
Medical Maltreatment 2%
Other* 17%

P: Maqsood as I wrote before what do these statistics mean unless you can compare them with similar studies in Muslim countries. Why do they not exist. If they exist why do you not quote them. Are you ashamed of what they will reveal?

M: Plato, this statistics are from your own sources…Yes now you have come to the point that Why do they not exist this is only because that we have fear from Allah Almighty. If we do these type of acts, we will have to be answerable to HIM. Other wise we will be punished in this world and hereafter.

Actually as I said before Islam gives the best system to spend the life. Life is not only to do ones own wishes. If you go that way you will definitely be lost in evil things.

>>P:Alcohol is not a disease, alcoholism is a disease. The roulette table is not a disease, the compulsion to gamble is a disease.

M: Agreed ! So Plato! should you leave alcohlism???<<

P: Admitting to taking a few drinks once in a while has made me into an alcoholic. Having sex once in a while makes me a sex maniac?

M: Amazed by your good thought Plao! Applause……

yo mean that single murder is not serious enough. But honestly tell me that having sex once, will you have more desire for next sex or less desire??? It will definitely be more. Then who will stop u to have 2^nd sex, murder, drinks. There is no end. And this is practically proved by the facts from your society described in above reports.

>>P:Alcohol is the snare of Satan? Who created alcohol, Allah or Satan? Did Allah create it so that Satan could use it to snare man? In the first case Satan is also capable of creating things like Allah. In the second case Allah is culpable.

M: Why are you focusing only on Satan??<<

P :Who is focusing on Satan? You brought up Satan and I gave you passages from the Koran clearly showing Allah and Satan in cahoots to misguide human beings to make them fuel for hell fire.

>>Tell me what is your view now about Alcoholism? Dont just discuss for discussion.... About Satan and Allah i told you in my earlier reply. yo can learn these once your basics about islam get cleared<<

P: What do you think is my view on lung cancer? If you smoke too much you are likely to get the disease. If you drink too much you will become an alcoholic. Ideally stop smoking and drinking.

Maqsood tell me if I am wrong about the basics of Islam: 1) Repeat the shahada. 2) Pray to an unseen being five times a day in a language you do not know facing in a direction where a piece of black stone is located. 3) Go to Mecca and indulge in a pagan ritual reminiscent of idol worship by circumambulating a stone. 4) Slaughter an animal to commemorate a near human sacrifice to appease a deity who needs to see blood flow from the slit jugulars of millions of animals every year to be assured that he has the allegiance of his creatures. These are about the most of basics of Islam. How will these basics of Islam make me a good person?

M: Actually these belong to faith. I can go in detail to each of these. But I want to keep this discussion to alcoholism. I want to go with you from logic to faith.

Maqsood

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