To Maqsood: Part II: On what is really shameful and authentic references.

Submitted by Plato (India), Aug 23, 2007 at 02:56

Part II On what is really shameful and authentic references

M: yoU r making such shameful blames on our holy prophets ( But also the Christians) without any reference. Can you show me authentic reference for what you have said. There is no doubt that loot's nation was involved in homosexuality like you people and was destroyed (except the pious ones) completely. U can find their signs from the history.

P: Maqsood, the authentic reference is the Bible, which is a book in which you also believe. Without the Bible one of your Prophet's claims to prophethood fails as it is claimed that the Bible predicts his coming.

Abstract : Verbal resonances suggest that Abraham"s claim that Sarah is his half-sister in Gen. xx 13 indicates that he violates the prohibition of sibling incest in Lev. xx 17. This observation links Abraham not only to Amnon who has an incestuous relationship with his half-sister Tamar but to David who has an incestuous relationship with his halfsister Abigail after the death of her husband Nabal. The narrative of the conception of Moab, the son born to Lot after his unwitting incestuous relationship with his younger daughter, precedes the narrative in which Abraham admits that Sarah is his half-sister and is followed by the birth of Isaac, suggesting that the Torah implies that Isaac is no less the product of an incestuous relationship that violates the Holiness Code than Moab, an ancestor of David and Perez who is born as a result of an unwitting incestuous relationship between Judah and Tamar. http://www.springerlink.com/content/e6hwwe1umrbf986d/

M…. So what will happen to you people think???// Also tell me what do you say about prophet Jesus and Moses???

P: About Prophet Jesus we have the silly story of Gabriel breathing into her (where?) and her becoming pregnant. Did Gabriel's breath contain some kind of sperm which united with the egg in her? Whose genes did the sperm contain, Maqsood. The Moses story is similar to the story of Krishna in India and of the Assyrian Saragon (http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/sargon.html)

P…. Genes clearly do contribute to alcoholism. However, even when a gene like GABRG3 is found, that does not mean we understand the genetic basis of alcoholism. The researchers do not yet know how changes in the GABA gene increase a person's risk of alcoholism. …..

Maqsood study these two articles. Allah cannot escape responsibility for alcoholism in humans. Despite the caveat in the second article, slowly but surely science is narrowing in on Allah as the cause for alcoholism!!

M: What do you want to prove from these studies?? Either there is God who made genes??? Or we all r out of responsibility for what we do…..

May be tomorrow you will say that I m not responsible for murdering but a gene created by Allah Almighty???

Be sensible Plato! There are genes and there is God, but you r responsible for what you do.

Maqsood think for a little while. Who gave us the genes we have. Some of the genes make us do bad things. Let us find out what is sensible. The studies show that there are alcoholism genes. If it is true that Allah created us then he also created those genes in us. You cannot escape this fact. But for us atheists we cannot blame Allah for our genes. We know that there are genes coding for such behaviour but we also know that those who fall victim to alcoholism are just that, victims. So we set up programmes to correct or if possible mitigate the effects of those genes.

But what can you who believe in the power of Allah do when you discover that He has placed genes in you for alcoholism? You will have to plead that because Allah is all-powerful there is nothing that can be done as again the alcoholic is a victim, this time of Allah.

People who do not believe in God take responsibility for their behaviour, unlike people who believe in Allah or God. Allah knows everything well in advance. He claims He is responsible for everything, even for the movement of a leaf shaking in the wind. As long as you believe in Allah you can claim that you are not responsible for any of your actions because He already knows and is responsible for your actions because He created you knowing what your actions will be. Find a flaw in the logic of what I have said, Maqsood.

I will take responsibility for what I do even if I know genes can influence my behaviour because I also know that other genes have given me the capability to overcome many of the deleterious effects of those genes by the force of my will, just as many gene-based diseases can be overcome by medicines. But if Allah has given me those genes I can safely plead innocence and hang the blame on Allah for giving me those genes.

About murdering genes: If you have extra large doses of testosterone in your blood due the gene that codes for it you will be very aggressive. Males have greater criminal tendencies than women. Only males have the Y chromosome. Hence the chromosome could be held responsible for this male tendency.

M: Plato what a senseless statement you r giving. 1^st admit that Allah created you and everything including genes in you, then I will tell you the secret behind genes coding. Also tell me that if these genes are more in you people???

P: I have no hesitation in admitting that Allah created me to you. Or that Brahma created me to a Hindu. Or Yahweh created me to a Jew. Or the spirit in the banyan tree to the animist. Or that I am just a soul wandering around till it achieves nirvana to a Buddhist. Does that make sense to you, Maqsood? I sound like the hypocrite that you think I am don't I?

When you ask whether I have more of these alcoholism genes in people like me I must confess I have no idea about the others but I can tell you that I do take a glass or two of alcoholic drinks once in while but I have not yet ended up beating up my wife or committed incest.

M: So as per your statement you r free to do anything. U can drink, you can do incest, you can murder any thing you like. Again if you really want to know y He created us, believe in Allah, I will tell you. But why could not you answer. What are the reasons to such inhumane things in your point of view? This is so called civilized world.

P: Yes that would be true if I believed that Allah created me. And it would be true for you also since you surely believe Allah created you knowing full well how you would behave. I on the other hand believe I must take responsibility for almost all my actions, I cannot pass it on to Allah as Muslims do for most things they don't like or understand. Everything a Muslim considers good is from Allah, everything that is bad is man's responsibility clean forgetting that Allah claims He is the reason for everything.

The reason for such inhumane things if you believe in Allah, dear Maqsood , is because Allah wills it so.

6:148-49 SHAKIR: Those who are polytheists will say: If Allah had pleased we would not have associated (aught with Him) nor our fathers, nor would we have forbidden (to ourselves) anything; even so did those before them reject until they tasted Our punishment. Say: Have you any knowledge with you so you should bring it forth to us? You only follow a conjecture and you only tell lies. Say: Then Allah's is the conclusive argument; so if He please, He would certainly guide you all.

Are the polytheists wrong in their reasoning or is Allah wrong, think carefully without the blinkers of what you were taught by the mullahs.

17:97 SHAKIR: And whomsoever Allah guides, he is the follower of the right way, and whomsoever He causes to err, you shall not find for him guardians besides Him; …

So why did Allah go to the trouble of appointing a prophet if He himself was going to cause people to err?

2:89 SHAKIR: And when there came to them a Book from Allah verifying that which they have, and aforetime they used to pray for victory against those who disbelieve, but when there came to them (Prophet) that which they did not recognize, they disbelieved in him; so Allah's curse is on the unbelievers.

Allah cursing unbelievers. Is this the Mighty Allah? How ridiculous!

13:31 SHAKIR: And even if there were a Quran with which the mountains were made to pass away, or the earth were travelled over with it, or the dead were made to speak thereby; nay! the commandment is wholly Allah's, Have not yet those who believe known that if Allah please He would certainly guide all the people? And (as for) those who disbelieve, there will not cease to afflict them because of what they do a repelling calamity, or it will alight close by their abodes, until the promise of Allah comes about; surely Allah will not fail in (His) promise.

Now Maqsood, why do Muslims go about doing dawa. Allah Himself is telling the believers that it is Allah's will that there be disbelievers! Have a careful look at the context too, Maqsood.

M: are you in doubt that Islam forbids incest, illegal sex, rape, alcoholism, pork eating etc. whY you don't tell me the reasons of such a pathetic condition where people don't follow Islam or any religion. I know you r afraid to confess the truth. I have told you the reasons of such incidents (although too small comparatively) in Islamic countries. i.e not to obey The Islam.

P: Except pork all religions forbid incest, illegal sex, and rape. Alcoholism is a disease it is not something you can forbid, you can only try and prevent it or treat it.

Where do you live Maqsood? You talk of the pathetic conditions of people who do not follow Islam. What do you think of the condition of people in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sudan, Somalia, most Arab countries. If you don't consider their condition pathetic, please let us know what word can describe their condition when compared to Christian, Buddhist and other countries. Unless to your mind what makes people pathetic is the consumption of pork, alcohol, uncovered and free women and more open sexuality. If that be the case we prefer to remain pathetic.

Yes I am afraid to confess the truth about Islamic countries. It is so scarily pathetic that even disbelievers like me find it hard to believe that human beings still have to undergo the tortures of hell on earth in Muslim nations. Saudi Arabia 50% of humanity (women) enslaved by men. No freedom of worship, no freedom of speech. Pagans considered najees and kept out of Mecca and Medina.

Pakistan. Honour killings. Hudood laws where a victim of rape can be convicted if there are no witnesses to the rape. So how many women will dare come forward? Lawlessness, bombing and religious warfare between Shia and Sunni.

Egypt. An Al Azhar scholar declares that for men and women who are not close relatives to work together the women must breast feed the men.

May 21, 2007 23:03 | Updated May 21, 2007 23:03
Egypt: Fatwa allows breast-feeding among adults
By ASSOCIATED PRESS
CAIRO, Egypt

showInitialOdiogoReadNowFrame ('1002,1003,1005,1004,1006,1484,1560', '0', 290, 0); Al-Azhar University, one of Sunni Islam's most prestigious institutions, ordered one of its clerics Monday to face a disciplinary panel after he issued a controversial decree allowing adults to breast-feed.

Ezzat Attiya had issued a fatwa, or religious edict, saying adult men could breast-feed from female work colleagues as a way to avoid breaking Islamic rules that forbid men and women from being alone together.

This is what your prophet had to say on the matter: 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Salim, the freed slave of Abu Hadhaifa, lived with him and his family in their house. She (i. e. the daughter of Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Salim has attained (purbety) [sic] as men attain, and he understands what they understand, and he enters our house freely, I, however, perceive that something (rankles) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa, whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said to her: Suckle him and you would become unlawful for him, and (the rankling) which Abu Hudhaifa feels in his heart will disappear. She returned and said: So I suckled him, and what (was there) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa disappeared. (Sahih Muslim 3425)

Maqsood, you also must read of the ruling of Indian Islamic scholars who divorced a woman from her husband because her father-in-law had raped her and said she was now lawful for the father-in-law.

These pathetic rulings can be multiplied many fold and generally are found only in Islam

P:And I have shown you how Allah's prophets indulged in this sin of incest.

M: yoU non Muslims especially atheists always try to do such shameful acts. Can you show me your source of information.

P: Read my previous answer on the subject of incest beginning with Adam and Eve's children and http://www.springerlink.com/content/e6hwwe1umrbf986d/

P:You have to admit that the only blemish less being is Allah. That means even the Prophet can have blemishes. And blemishes he had in plenty. Books have been written about them.

M: Yeah people like you try to do so but they have never succeeded in their ugly intentions. Can you show me any authentic reference in favor of your statement???, Again until you don't believe in Allah, such statements about Him don't suit you.

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