Keith Williams: Mumbai was the result of Koran 60:4. Pakistani schools teach hatred of Hindus which this verse orders.

Submitted by Plato (India), Dec 21, 2008 at 11:24

Keith you wrote:

>>Yes, there is no place for terrorism in Islam. Allah did not say terrorize the innocents.<<

Keith, what does the booty Muslims are allowed to take consist of?? Women and children are also booty. Muslims are allowed to sell them in slave markets. Is this not terrorism? Will this not terrorise innocent women and children? Read 48:20 and 8:69.

>>Context matters my friend. History records that all the battles fought by the early Muslims under Muhammad were of a defensive nature.<<

How many times have Muslims repeated this BIG LIE? Keith do your math. Calculate how of the 80 or so raids and battles that Muhammad was responsible were of a defensive nature. Read your sira. Read your hadith and then tell your readers here the numbers you can come up with for number of defensive battles that the Prophet fought.

>> Resistance by arms was resorted to only after the greatest provocation, or attack upon the community.<<

What was the great provocation for the Nakhala incident. What was the great provocation for the raid on Abu Sufyan's caravan that led to Badr? What was the great provocation that led to the exile of the Banu Mustaliq and the Banu nadir? What was the great provocation that led to massacre of theBanu Quraiza? What was the provocation for attack on Persia? What was the provocation for the attack on India? Tells us Keith.

>>But short is the path from defensive war to offensive war, when passions are aroused.<<

You must remember that if India decides to go on the offensive against Pakistan for what they did in Mumbai.

>> In Islam, justice and equality in the way of God must prevail over hate and passion and not exceeding the limits and rules of war must always be obeyed but a few have exceeded the mandate and are committing terrorist and criminal acts against the innocents. Islam is against that. <<

Remember the verse you quoted in another post: '60:4 A good example has been set for you by Abraham and those with him. They said to their people, "We disown you and the IDOLS that you worship besides GOD. We denounce you, and you will see nothing from us except animosity and hatred until you believe in GOD ALONE."

No Keith, Islam is NOT against animosity and hatred of the OTHER.

>>A few have forgotten some of the Prophet's teachings that:

"The ink of the scholar is more holy than the blood of the martyr." <<

This does not sound like a sahih hadith. Can you give reference, please? And what happens to the scholar if he discovers absurdities, contradictions and plagiarism in the Koran? A fatwa will allow his blood? Remember Taha Hussein? Or Ali Dashti?

>>And that the: "The most excellent Jihad is that for the conquest of self."<<

Then why does the Prophet tell us in Bukhari, Vol 4 Bk 52 No. 72 ' Nobody who enters paradise likes to go back to world even if he got everything on the earth, except a mujahid (Islamic fighter) who wishes to return so that he may be martyred ten times….'

The prophet is also quoted, Bukhari Vol 5, Bk 59, No 377 ' A man came to the prophet and said, 'Can you tell me where I will go if I get martyred? The prophet replied, To paradise. The man fought till he was martyred.'

>>As for Qur'an 8:60, I think you are taking this ayah out of context. I pray that God leads you to the straight path. Please try to do your best to keep your heart and mind pure when you read the Qur'an<<

The eternal favourite of Muslims to explain the abuses and curses and terrorizing verses in the Koran, CONTEXT! By telling people to keep their hearts pure when reading the Koran you really mean shut your eyes and mind to the cruel verses you find in it.

>>… or any Holy Scriptures for that matter and, God willing, he will enter your heart, mind and soul and help you to understand.<<

Are you saying that we should read other scriptures, for instance the Bible which you have abandoned, with a pure heart i.e shut our minds to the contradictions, or terror verses of the OT. Why then, all will scriptures will appear to be the word of Allah.

>>If you read the Qur'an with the level of disbelief and having no faith in God that you have shown then yeah, you will be one of those lead astray and one of those who has his heart hardened each and every time you read or hear it.<<

How can you possibly ask us to have belief and faith in a god who repeatedly tells in the Koran that He chooses to misguide whom He will? 006.125
YUSUFALI: Those whom Allah (in His plan) willeth to guide,- He openeth their breast to Islam; those whom He willeth to leave straying,- He maketh their breast close and constricted, as if they had to climb up to the skies: thus doth Allah (heap) the penalty on those who refuse to believe

Read the underlined words, they say those whom He willeth to leave straying. It is Allah's will to leave people straying. This means disbelief and faithlessness come AFTER what Allah has willed it. Can you dispute this fact?

Here is the complete Qur'an 8:60)

>>"Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies and others besides whom ye may not know but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly. (60) "

This ayah is calling on the believers to stand up for peace and justice.<<

This the amazing Muslim mind at work. Striking terror into the enemy with a show of power because they are the enemies of Allah and this is considered to be a call on believers to stand up for peace. Now who are these great enemies of Allah and His prophet? Remember all those verses in the Koran about idol worship? They are Allah's worst enemies for worshipping someone else. So Muslims like those boys from the land of pure Islam, Pakistan, who came to the impure land of idol worshippers, and massacred people indiscriminately were standing up for peace and justice (Keith, you know Allah considers idol worship the worst kind of injustice).

>>Next ayat to give more context.

(61. But if they incline to peace, you also incline to it, and trust in Allah. Verily, He is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower.)<<

How does an idol-worshipper incline to peace except by accepting Islam? Is there any other way, Keith, it would be very interesting to know your opinion. Keep in mind 60:4 which tells you : "We disown you and the IDOLS that you worship besides GOD. We denounce you, and you will see nothing from us except animosity and hatred until you believe in GOD ALONE."

(62. And if they intend to deceive you, then verily, Allah is All-Sufficient for you. He it is Who has supported you with His help and with the believers.) (63. And He has united their (believers') hearts. If you had spent all that is in the earth, you could not have united their hearts, but Allah has united them. Certainly He is All-Mighty, All-Wise.)

>>I pray for your guidance dhimmi. God willing, you will find faith in God. Here is some inspiration for you dhimmi to let you know that I will do my best not to give up on you for your guidance. <<

Keith, let me an unbeliever remind you about Allah's will. He accepts no intercession and you are interceding for dhimmi by praying for his guidance. Surah 6:125 tells you clearly that Allah wills to misguide some people. And that was a decision of Allah before the universe existed (42:21).

>>Islam does away with all that came before it my friend. <<

Never were truer words spoken about Islam. Islam wipes clean or attempts to, everything before Islam. That is why Pakistanis think nothing of disowning their heritage before Islam. They think of the invader Mohammed Bin Qasim as the one who started the process of wiping out what came before islam. His Muslim brothers wiped out the great university of nalanda. The Taliban wiped out the last vestiges of Buddhism from Afghanistan by reducing the Bamiyan statues to rubble. Yes, that is what Islam does. I does away with everything that came before Islam by reducing them to rubble.

>>Qur'an 33: O ye who believe! Fear Allah, and (always) say a word directed to the Right: (70) That He may make your conduct whole and sound and forgive you your sins: he that obeys Allah and His Messenger, has already attained the highest Achievement. (71)<<

Obeying Allah and messenger entails obeying this verse: 060.004
YUSUFALI: ……. "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone": …….

>>God bless you all,<<

Do you really mean it, Keith? You wouldn't if your read 60:4

Regards

Plato

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