you should prove the points made are incorrect

Submitted by the Grand Infidel of Kaffiristan (Australia), Dec 21, 2008 at 21:51

Mr. Bayezid writes:"you do sound offended. that means i'm on your nerves arent i"
No. Your thinking I sound offended doesn't mean you're 'on my nerves'.

I have re-read what I wrote to you and no, I was not offended at all . What is there to be offended about

"...stop saying ludicrous things about islam.
Which things are you talking about that seem ludicrous to you

"and let me add............ you dont do a good job at concealing your emotions
Sorry to disappoint you there - I'm not particularly emotional and characters on a screen don't push my buttons.

"people delude themselves all the time. whether voluntarily or involuntarily. you should know since your arguments are fuelled solely by wishful thinking.

I think I was using the term delusional to describe some of the followers of Islam. And I said 'wishful thinking' when describing Muslim's hopes that somehow they'll be able to subvert western cultures with their belief system, so, yes - when you say
"...you do know what that means dont you?" - I can even give you examples.

".....red herrings are fishes."
classic - another red herring!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring

"Red herring (logical fallacy) =a deliberate attempt to change a subject or divert an argument."
"Red herring (narrative) = a technique used in literature to mislead the audience"

Mr. Bayezid, you're not skilled at rhetoric - your aims and motivations are too obvious. As I pointed out in another post - you constantly use rhetorical methods - ad hominem attacks, 'red herrings' and 'straw man' arguments. Aside for the 'red herrings' - something smells very fishy.

"my question to you still stands. can you state what is actually proof of GOD? THE REALITY, one of the attributes of GOD, is proof in itself" "
I never asked that question. And I do not follow your answer. And I wouldn't offer the answer to anybody who asked, that proof of God is proof of God. It's not going to do much for them.

"so you can stop expecting a giant hand in the sky or a huge bearded figure floating in space. thats what you may think GOD to be. but given that GOD did want to prove to you HIS existence and thus appered like as stated above. are you sure you wuld believe ?"

There you go again - straw man arguments. Is your reasoning so distorted that you're not aware you're using them ? You'll find l've never mentioned a 'giant hand in the sky or a huge bearded figure floating in space' to you at all.
" you do know how to twist logic."
Logic is logic. logic can't be twisted. Facts follow from other facts. I would use what I would call inductive reasoning in discussing Islam and its effect on our cultures. . If I've been incorrect - please demonstrate - rather than resort to ad hominem attacks.

"just because bahai is new dosent mean its authentic. i proved to you how exactly. these guys dont know what they are talking bout since they say all religions are welcome but all religions arent compact but a continuation. "

Let's see - here's from Wikipedia on Bahai:

"The independent search after truth, unfettered by superstition or tradition;"

You'd agree with that ?

"The oneness of the entire human race, the pivotal principle and fundamental doctrine of the Faith; the basic unity of all religions; the condemnation of all forms of prejudice, whether religious, racial, class or national; the harmony which must exist between religion and science ;the equality of men and women, the two wings on which the bird of humankind is able to soar; the introduction of compulsory education; the adoption of a universal auxiliary language; the abolition of the extremes of wealth and poverty; the institution of a world tribunal for the adjudication of disputes between nations; the exaltation of work, performed in the spirit of service, to the rank of worship; the glorification of justice as the ruling principle in human society, and of religion as a bulwark for the protection of all peoples and nations; and the establishment of a permanent and universal peace as the supreme goal of all mankind—these stand out as the essential elements [which Bahá'u'lláh proclaimed "

OK, which particular bits don't you like?

" hahahah are you sure the ad homenem is from me or you? "
I'll let you guess, remembering that I initially brought the term 'ad hominem' to your attention

"i never implied islam and god are the same. you did that."
That's correct.I made a statement. I should have phrased it differently. Islam and God are not one and the same. People , such as Mohammed Attar and
the many oxygen thieves around the world like him who at some future point will kill and maim large groups of people people, believe wholeheartedly in Islam and it's religio/political aims.

Raja Believer writes:
"THE PURE MEASURELESS BEING THAT IS WITHOUT LIMITATION OR DETERMINATION, THE ONE WHICH IS NOT OPPOSED TO ANOTHER, THE ABSOLUTE SUPREME REALITY, THE UNIVERSAL SELF, DEFINED AS -- EXISTENCE, CONSCIOUSNESS, BLISS--"

Where is the consciousess and bliss in Islam's followers?

Having just written "i never implied islam and god are the same."
you then continue
" if u slander islam, you are essentially slandering GOD becasue you have the audacity to say HE is wrong. see my logic?"

Garbage. The facts you base your 'argument' on are false. You think that 'God' wrote a book of rules for you to follow?
You don't accept that the book was written down by human beings?
Does supreme consciousness and bliss and awareness dislike me because I don't face Mecca five times a day? Or
because I don't step into a toilet with my left foot and exit with my right?

"i hate to disappoint you but i did laugh. a small giggle from time to time if not outright laughter."
Good for you. I'm not disappointed.

"in your baleful depictions of islam you have not really given proof based on the core values of islam."
The core values of Islam were plagiarized from earlier writings from other traditions. These earlier writings are universal
- the UN declaration of Human Rights enshrines simila values. I have no problem with them.
Another poster, Plato I think, poins out the vast difference between the sanitzied version of Islam its followers promote
- and what is actually happening under the sheets. Human beings are adept at rationalisations - absolutely expert.
YOu can kid yourself as much as you like how wonderful Islam is for the world. The facts tell otherwise.

"but simply your personal agenda"
An agenda is a plan. What is my plan?.

"you still claim quran is a work of man. prove it. "
The Koran was written by human hand was it not? Prove it was not.
How many original Korans are there? Two or three? We can prove when and where they were written, what the ink was made from,
spectroscopic analysis shows which plants and other materials were in the parchment etc .
I suppose you'll tell me there's some other Koran somewhere else that can't be tested that is the basis for these partial copies? Prove that.

"i know these two words scare you."
You do not know that because it is not true. You should say 'I suppose' or even 'I hope' - but defintely not 'I know'

"but again, you are doing this to yourself."
Everything we do, we do to ourselves. That's the reason we should seek the 'Kingdom of Heaven' within - i.e. increase our awareness
of our real Selves. Not increase our awareness of superstitions.

"so Muhammad, the unlettered poor prophet of GOD, actually plagiarized the quran? i believe you imlied Muhammad since it was revelaed on him alone. so there really was no scope of ny other knowing this."

Who wrote the Koran?

Let's see ....

"'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Koran, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Koran was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. 'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Koranic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt."

".......certainly not the barbaric arabs."

You're not even aware who wrote this book you are so sure is the ultimate revelation from the supreme bliss and awareness behind the cosmos?

".....what you are doing is you are making an accusation wimilar to someone saying that a blind, deaf and limbless person mde the eiffel tower.

The Koran is not the Eiffel Tower. As I pointed out - it took a few years for Tolkien , one man, to craft an amazingly intricate work of fiction based on universal truths. It reads well, is coherent and follows logically from scene to scene though based on fantasy. It is far more coherent than the Koran.

"word of dvice, dont let your friends see this, even i dnt want you to be a alughing stock ""
My friends can see this. Why should they not?

" a message isnt important based on its sweetness or sourness. only in its authenticity. so im sorry if ur offended by what GOD said bout homosexuals and adulterers and liars in quran, lets face this ! HE deinitely wasnt lying"

Did anyone other than yourself mention homosexuals , liars and adulterers? Another example of red herring?
Sure, who likes liars but what is your point? What is your problem with social minorities? Do you hate Jews too?

You just hate all the people 'Allah' hates, don't you?

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