for Mr. Plato

Submitted by Lt. General Ayyub Khan (Turkey), Feb 23, 2009 at 06:40

Some of us may have felt that partition was a mistake for some time. But now I think the large majority of Indians think partition was a piece of good luck. Considering what is happening in your country, we have no desire to be sucked into the quagmire that is Pakistan now.

Good good.....and i pray that india remains united lest we deal with an onslaught of Sikh and other refugees. I was never really bothered by whether indian were bitter or not about Pakistan creation. In the end we have our country and that is most important.

General what is your concept of a peaceful and tolerant religion?

I can't think of any religions that are not peaceful and tolerant. That is more than what i can say about some followers who distort things to serve their own nefarious designs.

Those people in Lal Masjid were not trying to bastardize your religion, they were true Mulims into whose souls the Koran had descended.

Which is why they were trying to kidnap foreigners and were vandalizing shops (i.e. destroying livelihoods)

I'm not sure who told you they were true Muslims. Even the religious parties were condemning their actions. Dont forget that they were smuggling dangerous weapons into a holy place. That automatically renders their credibility subpar.

Now these co-religionists of yours felt that people like you who listened to music, went to see Bollywood movies, or sent their daughters to college to be educated and be ogled by macho Punjabi boys had made 'them clear of you and enmity and eternal hatred' had arisen between you and them.

Apart from watching bollywood garbage, yes i engage in said activties. If in their book that makes me a kaffir, then i guess i am one in their book. They arent speaking on my behalf or representing my country or its policies. Therefore i'm just simply not worried or concerned.

Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.

Even though that is highly mis-translated, I must say that I agree with the verse 100%

Especially to those who wage war on Muslims or on our countries. But this is no dar al-harb. If those whack-jobs think its crusades time, then they are in for a un-pleasant surprise.

The Lal Masjid brothers probably had this verse engraved in their hearts.

Funny how you call them 'brothers'

Are you their spokesperson? Something we should know here? LoL.

For the record, I supported the operation against the misguided nut-jobs who armed themselves and took people hostage –inside a holy place. They got what they deserved.

They obviously considered the majority of Pakistanis to be kafirs for their decadent ways and took up Allah's prescription to end kufar in their 'Pak' land.

And who gave them the authority or writ to declare who is and who is not a kaffir? Most of those men and women were illiterate and never went to school. Who are they declare who is kaffir and who is not? They are nobodys. Rather, they WERE nobodys.

The Mullahs of Lal Masjid knew what was best for them and their 'Pak' land, for the Koran informs them: 009.041 Go ye forth, (whether equipped) lightly or heavily, and strive and struggle, with your goods and your persons, in the cause of Allah. That is best for you, if ye (but) knew.

Fighting for the cause of Allah (fi Sabeel Allah) does not mean 'right to bear arms' and bloodshed. It can be done just by helping a man in a wheel-chair cross the street safely. Or by keeping the plight of the poor close to our hearts (and doing best to alleviate their pain). Many ways, actually.

This applies to Kashmir too. As you say: It's sick ---but this is what is happening in Kashmir.

As far as i know, no schools have been bombed in Kashmir. I'd be more worried about indian held kashmir where the indian army repeatedly imposes curfews, harassment of locals, and occasional incidents of rape.

That is a lot more sick than blowing up a school

To paraphrase your statement: The militants are HATED in Kashmir --- that is the truth. But people are too scared to rise up against them. The army has done a good job of cleaning the area.

Kashmir is a disputed territory. The people want liberation from indian army grasp. How can you compare that to Swat which is facing an insurgency by local and many foreign fighters? Swat isnt an international disputed territory

Your logic makes no sense.

The Hindu mobs thrashed those poor girls and now the Ram Sene is being thrashed all over the media and goons have been charged and will be tried soon.

Hmmm. Good to know.

Cut to the land of the pure, Pakistan, or any Islamistan, and girls who are found with a boyfriend are likely to have their throats slit and buried secretly with the police joining in the cover up.

Maybe in conservative areas they would be chastized or beaten. But if you go to Lahore, Karachi, Sialkot, Islamabad, Rawalpindi or even parts of Peshawar or Quetta ---that is far from the truth.

You have a very distorted image of Pakistan. There are many conservative people in the country but in most cases, such behaviour would just attract stares or maybe frowns.

I dont know what u meant by Islamistan –but if you are referring to countries with Muslim populations then i suggest you travel a bit more. Just based on my experiences in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, Bahrain, Kuwait, Dubai, --and yes even Iran --- i can say with confidence that your post is a pack of lies.

Honour killings are honourable in your honoured land of the pure. Here is a 'heart-warming' report on one such killing:

"Three teenage girls have been buried alive by their tribe in a remote part of Pakistan to punish them for attempting to choose their own husbands, in an "honour" killing case.

After news of the deaths emerged, male politicians from their province, Baluchistan, defended the killings in parliament, claiming the practice was part of "our tribal custom".

its an old news and the culpulrits are jailed.

People in Pakistan are also demanding that senator Zehari be kicked out of senate and Pakistan Peoples Party. Nevertheless, we all believe its a shame and should never happen again.

We also in Pakistan have sisters/wives/daughters and it bothers me too.

And it bothers me even more when i see Palestinians kids being slaughtered by Israel using American weapons. We Pakistanis are ashamed on the act of those Baluchi Pakistanis

Are American ashamed? Are indian ashamed by honour killings in their own country?

You can find similar stories from Brahmin-run Hindustan but the difference is that such criminals are hunted down and jailed in accordance with the law.

İ wonder how many cases go un-reported? You are acting like your police force doesnt have its fair share of corruption.

General read the entire report (RAW funded no doubt!) and you will realize the aboveground government schools are doing a better job of preaching hatred and jihad than the underground madrassas.

While i agree that our education sector needs more attention, i highly find the report to be ridiculous. I have seen many indians use the same report to try showing how 'hateful' us Pakistanis are to our neighbours.

Let it be known that the guy who wrote that report had major beef with the education minister at the time. Another article written by an opportunist. Pakistan was created for Muslims of hindustan to be able to practice freely and live freely. We also have minorities who arent Muslim and Jinnah asked for them to be respected and be as free. I live by what Jinnah taught anyways....not the misguided madrassah people.

Now the statement I have underlined is really interesting. (I hope you meant zina. Zeenat was a popular Bollywood Muslim actress of yesteryears).

Actually when written, it reads Zeena but the word is Zeenat. Makes no difference.

And regarding bollywood actresses --- i wouldnt know anything about them. I dont subscribe to bollywood industry

This holy Islamic wedlock also allows for marrying and allowing sex with a nine-year-old girl remember (Ayesha, the prophet's favourite child wife?).

No it doesnt. And Nabay SAWS did not have any relations with her at that age. You are just using the typical (passe) smear tactic.

Most civilized countries will have the parents of the girl and the man behind bars in double quick time.

So i guess india isnt a civilized country. Why do parents marry their 7 year old girls to dogs?

This verse gives Muslims the freedom to sleep with any slave-girl they possess whether the poor girl wishes it or not.

You must be joking me. You took that verse way out of context. If you understand Arabic, i can even post the exact verse (just ask)

And as you are aware, slavery in Islam is completely forbidden. That is why Islam was so popular in Africa ---as well as among many dalit hindus who later converted to Islam.

With all the Brahmin Bhindians conspiring to target Christians and Muslims how do you explain the fact that the most powerful person in the country is an Italian Catholic woman.

So the most powerful person in your country isnt even an indian citizen? How odd. This woman who doesnt even speak fluent hindi, hated indian food, wore miniskirts everyday, and remained silent over indian army support for tamil tiger terrorists ----most powerful person in the country? Strange realities.

I, Yousuf Raza Gilani, do swear solemnly that l am a Muslim and believe in the Unity and Oneness of Almighty Allah, the Books of Allah, the Holy Quran being the last of them, the Prophethood of Muhammad (peace be upon him) as the last of the Prophets and that there can be no Prophet after him, the Day of Judgment, and all the requirements and teachings of the Holy Quran and Sunnah:

Now can a Christian or Hindu in your country take this oath? Will they be allowed to swear by the 'corrupt' Bible or the Ramayana with its human and monkey gods.

If there is a candidate with credentials and strong backing –i dont see why not. We've had a woman prime minister twice (she did do an awful job though)

A black man with a Muslim father is the US President. The world is full of surprises

And please dont refer to the bible as corrupt (even if you are trying to be a wise-alec). I take offence to it.

Your present prime minister can claim the verse is contextual and it is now redundant if he is one of those moderate Muslims. But what if the next one insists on following the letter and spirit of the Koran (the spirit of this verse is found in the first words 'Fight those who…' i.e. it has relevance for all time)? He will, like that pious Muslim, Aurangezeb, reimpose jizia on Christians and convert the Hindus as required by this verse.

Or maybe you are dis-illusioned? Learn more about Islam.

Same goes for India. Our population was also much smaller in 1947. But our Muslim population has outpaced the Hindu growth rate. This damages your perception that Muslims are under siege here does it not? Check the internet to know about how our Muslim population has grown. Your Hindu population on the other hand has reduced drastically from about 23% to less than 5% today.

I already explained why. But as usual you are fast asleep and not maintaining a strong focus. It's most unfortunate, and a very bad habit you have.

You think Hindus have a great sense of family planning? Why do you think there nearly a billion of us?

Well – your country is huge. It is inevitable

The Field Marshal was prophetic. You are beginning to 'eat' each other now aren't you?

İn a sense, yes.

Saudi sheik: 'Slavery is a part of Islam'
Leading government cleric, author of country's religious curriculum
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35518

Wonderful!! Quote a Saudi mullah (of all people). I only needed to read a few lines of that garbage to close the window and shudder.

I dont subscribe to the wahhaby cult or their mentality. Even 99% wahhaby and deobandis will condemn slavery. A key trait of Islam is that before God we are all equal. That is why in Mosques – a janitor, a taxi driver and a businessman will pray side by side in submission.

Islam condemns racism and slavery in all their forms. Islam is a universal religion meant for all nations without distinction. It has no colour or racial prejudice. Greater Arabia was a bastion for slavery and war and then Islam brought peace and prosperity.

General, you are an infidel. The Islamic scholar said it, not I.

Oh yes – one scholar's word has bearing on me and billions of others. My day is ruined now.

To keep this comment on slaves and Islam short, I will not quote from the hadith. There are many hadith which confirm that Islam never had any problems with slavery.

Too late – you already made it long. And you are incorrect from inside and out.

If you want to talk about Islam, then ask the question and I will answer them. But what I wont do is argue against garbage posted on "Islam watch" and other propoganda websites that take verses from our Holy Book way the hell out of context. I read and understand classical (foos'ha) and colloqial (Egyptian and Syrian) dialect of Arabic. Throw some verses at me and I'll be happy to prove my point.

Learn how to argue in a proper manner.

It is the same nonsense as your religion classifying human beings as Muslims and kafirs.

Kafirs just means a non-believer. But Islam doesnt discriminate its own people and dividing people into castes/categories.

Non-Muslims to us are just non-Muslims. No big deal. Unless you ask some fundamentalist nut job. Judaism and Christianity have their own fair-share of nutjobs who view the 'different' in a negative way.

Or the Koran telling Muslims that women are a degree below men:

False. Find a new source.

Paradise lies at the feet of the mother. How could we consider females lower than men?

Ouch. That could be painful. You can quote these ancient laws as much as you like and no Hindu will tell you that it is taken out context or misunderstood or mistranslated (except the RSS, VHP, Ram Sene types).

I agree.......same is the case with other religions. We all have our fair share of whack-jobs.

And are we trishul-weilding saffron-robed whackos that you see on your TVs?

İn university i had enough exposure to indian hindus.....the answer is no.

And what about Hindus and Buddhists?

İ have never heard of buddhists in Pakistan. Hindus are still there, but the numbers are very low. Most of them are just farmers and live in their own small communities.

We have almost any religion that you can name and the government does not discriminate against anyone.

İndia is a huge country and our region saw many conquests and different cultures and religions. In the end ---if what you say is true –then its a good thing. In both our countries there are extremists who embarass our name...but the masses are just regular people who dont view everything in religious perspective. Just hard-working people (and some dishonest people) who just do what they gotta do to live and raise family –like all humans.

We both seem to be secular minded people. So lets just leave it at that. I am a proud practicing Muslim till the day I die –but i view all humans as equals.

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