Keith Williams: Idols do not respond to us. Show us when Allah has responded to Muslim pleas

Submitted by Plato (India), Dec 27, 2008 at 02:26

.Keith, you wrote:

>>Forgiveness is taught in the Qur'an:<<

Yes Allah can forgive the most heinous of crimes but He will not forgive something that is no crime at all i.e. joining others with His exalted name.

004.048 YUSUFALI: Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed.

Keith, can you explain to your readers what is so heinous about worshipping an idol?

Allah Himself refuses to forgive the silly crime of joining associates with Him:

004.116
YUSUFALI: Allah forgiveth not (The sin of) joining other gods with Him; but He forgiveth whom He pleaseth other sins than this: one who joins other gods with Allah, Hath strayed far, far away (from the right)

If the person who extols forgiveness is Himself unforgiving who will believe in his exhortations?

>>You also wrote:

Allah is an ancient moon God. Allah is an idol currently being worshipped by 1.5 billion people.<<

No these are myths. Lets look inside the Qur'an and see shall we?

What the Qur'an says about the Moon:<<

The fact that the Koran has so many references to the moon is itself an indication that the moon has a lot to do with Allah. There is very often a picture of the crescent moon in pictures of muslims praying and their faces and hands are turned towards it in supplication. Many Islamic countries have the crescent on their flags. This certainly argues for a connection between Allah and the moon.

.

>>[10:5] He is the One who rendered the sun radiant, and the MOON a light, and He designed its phases that you may learn to count the years and to calculate. GOD did not create all this, except for a specific purpose. He explains the revelations for people who know.<<

Allah created the sun and the moon to help us count the years?? The sun is the primary source of energy. It is not a calculator or a calendar!

>>[71:16] He designed the MOON therein to be a light, and placed the sun to be a lamp.<<

The moon is not a very good lamp as it looses its light for a few days every month.

>>[74:32] Absolutely, (I swear) by the MOON.<<

The mighty Allah swearing by his own creation! What a come down!

>>[75:8] And the MOON is eclipsed.

[75:9] And the sun and the MOON crash into one another.<<

This a clear demonstration of the nonsense science in the Koran. The joining together of the sun and moon during an eclipse is an illusion and the Koran instead of enlightening us leave us ignorant about how an eclipse occurs.

>>[3:64] Say, "O followers of the scripture, let us come to a logical agreement between us and you: that we shall not worship except GOD; that we never set up any IDOLS besides Him, nor set up any human beings as lords beside GOD." If they turn away, say, "Bear witness that we are submitters."<<

This is not a logical agreement. Allah is telling the unbelievers to believe in Him and that they shall not worship anyone else. Is this how one reaches an agreement?

>>God Controls Your Enemies<<

Then why do Muslims complain of so many problems with their enemies. Israel, US, India…. ? Is Allah asleep at the moment?

>>[3:151] We will throw terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, since they set up besides GOD powerless IDOLS. Their destiny is Hell; what a miserable abode for the transgressors!<<

This verse is all about the intolerant Allah. He will terrorize those who worship inoffensive idols and consign them to hell.

>>[4:48] GOD does not forgive idolatry, but He forgives lesser offenses for whomever He wills. Anyone who sets up IDOLS beside GOD, has forged a horrendous offense.

*4:48 Idol worship is not forgivable, if maintained until death. One can always repent from any offense, including idolatry, before death comes (see 4:18 & 40:66).<<

What is the big deal with idolatory?? Why is Allah so worried about people worshipping rocks and wood? Allah is such an insecure being He has to rant and rave about people worshipping worthless pieces of wood and stone.

>>[4:60] Have you noted those who claim that they believe in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed before you, then uphold the unjust laws of their IDOLS? They were commanded to reject such laws. Indeed, it is the devil's wish to lead them far astray.<<

Allah Himself gave the devil permission to try and lead people astray (15:32-43)

>>[5:76] Say, "Would you worship beside GOD powerless IDOLS who can neither harm you, nor benefit you? GOD is Hearer, Omniscient."<<

If it neither harms nor benefits people to worship then why prevent them from doing so. Allah's almighty ego?

>>[6:107] Had GOD willed, they would not have worshiped IDOLS. We did not appoint you as their guardian, nor are you their advocate.<<

If worshipping idols so upsets Allah why then did not will people not to worship them?? With this verse all the other verses condemning idol worship seem ludicrous.

>>[6:137] Thus were the idol worshipers duped by their IDOLS, to the extent of killing their own children.* In fact, their IDOLS inflict great pain upon them, and confuse their religion for them. Had GOD willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.<<

Another ludicrous verse from the all-knowing Allah. He did not will that idol worshippers should desist from such worship which would mean He willed the believers to believe only in Him. Keith, do see how idiotic Allah sounds in this verse?

>>[7:194] The IDOLS you invoke besides GOD are creatures like you. Go ahead and call upon them; let them respond to you, if you are right.<<

When this phantom of the skies ever respond to the cries of Muslims. The Palestinians have been crying loudly for sixty years. The Bushes managed to destroy Iraq despite all the cries of Muslims all over the world. Perhaps if they had cried to Al Lat and Al Uzza they would have been better off today.

>>[7:195] Do they have legs on which they walk? Do they have hands with which they defend themselves? Do they have eyes with which they see? Do they have ears with which they hear? Say, "Call upon your IDOLS, and ask them to smite me without delay.<<

Does Allah have legs, hands, eyes or ears? Why should the idols have them? I have been calling upon Allah to smite me without delay for decades now. Allah is as ineffectual as the idols He is cursing.

>>[7:197] "As for the IDOLS you set up beside Him, they cannot help you, nor can they help themselves."<<

When has allah come to anybody's help. And how do you know that the idols some people worship do not help them. Why don't you ask some idol-worshippers whether their idols have helped them. The ones I have talked all claimed they have been helped. Go to the great Tirupathi temple in India and you will see millions who think they have been helped by the idol there. How will you prove them wrong?

>>[10:28] On the day when we summon them all, we will say to those who worshiped IDOLS, "We have summoned you, together with your IDOLS." We will have them confront each other, and their IDOLS will say to them, "We had no idea that you idolized us.<<

In this verse Allah is informing that idols also have souls which will survive their destruction and at last on judgment day they will speak to their worshippers.

>>[10:34] Say, "Can any of your IDOLS initiate creation, then repeat it?" Say, "GOD initiates the creation, then repeats it."<<

A phantom of Muhammad's imagination saying Allah initiates creation does not make it true. The idols could have told their worshippers the same thing (they can speak, for according to Allah in 7:195 He has not said they do not have mouths).

>>[10:66] Absolutely, to GOD belongs everyone in the heavens and everyone on earth. Those who set up IDOLS beside GOD are really following nothing. They only think that they are following something. They only guess.<<

Keith, your following Allah, is it anything more than a guess

>>[11:21] These are the ones who lose their souls, and the IDOLS they had fabricated will disown them.<<

Does Allah think that have the capability to disown anything. If they can can't you imagine their capability to own the universe too?

>>[13:14] Imploring Him is the only legitimate supplication, while the IDOLS they implore beside Him, cannot ever respond. Thus, they are like those who stretch their hands to the water, but nothing reaches their mouths. The supplications of the disbelievers are in vain.<<

Can you give a modern day demonstration of any Allah responding to Muslims who implore and beseech Him? Hint: Listen to the Khutbas coming out Saudi Arabia (visit the Al Minbar web site).

>>[16:3] He created the heavens and the earth for a specific purpose. He is much too High, far above any IDOLS they set up.<<

Allah has told us elsewhere that the specific purpose is to mindlessly sing His praises and be rewarded for it.

>>[16:20] As for the IDOLS they set up beside GOD, they do not create anything; they themselves were created.<<

Why can't Muslims see that Allah is also a figment of Muhammad's imagination?

>>Famous Excuse

[16:35] The idol worshipers say, "Had GOD willed, we would not worship any IDOLS besides Him, nor would our parents. Nor would we prohibit anything besides His prohibitions." Those before them have done the same. Can the messengers do anything but deliver the complete message?<<

Keith, that is exactly what Allah tells you. Have you not read the Koran?

010.099 YUSUFALI: If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe!

The excuse is famous because it has been delivered by Allah Himself.

>>The Idols Disown Their Idolizers

[16:86] And when those who committed idol worship see their IDOLS, they will say, "Our Lord, these are the IDOLS we had set up beside You." The IDOLS will then confront them and say, "You are liars."<<

Poor Allah, even in His presence the idols lie. When the idol-worshippers admit to praying to them why do the idols deny it? It is the idols whom Allah has given life in His presence which lie.

>>[17:56] Say, "Implore whatever IDOLS you have set up beside Him." They have no power to relieve your afflictions, nor can they prevent them.<<

Give me an example of the almighty Allah relieving peoples afflictions or preventing them. Go to your mosque and pray and grovel before Allah if you have an affliction and see whether it makes any difference. You imploring Allah will not give any better results than if you had implored the curbstone outside your house.

>>The Righteous Idols Worship God Alone

[17:57] Even the IDOLS that they implore are seeking the ways and means towards their Lord. They pray for His mercy, and fear His retribution. Surely, the retribution of your Lord is dreadful.<<

The Koran thinks idols also have a soul and worship Allah! LOL! This is great news for idol-worshippers. The Koran confirms they too have souls.

>>[17:67] If you are afflicted in the middle of the sea, you forget your IDOLS and sincerely implore Him alone. But as soon as He saves you to the shore, you revert. Indeed, the human being is unappreciative.<<

Who can count the number of people who went to a watery grave despite their desperate pleas? Claiming to be all-powerful is vastly different from proving it in practice.

>>[21:67] "You have incurred shame by worshiping IDOLS beside GOD. Do you not understand?"<<

Billions of people have proudly worshipped and still worship idols. They understand that Allah is no better, and in fact far worse than their idols. At least the idols do not abuse and curse people for worshipping other gods.

>>[21:98] You and the IDOLS you worship besides GOD will be fuel for Hell; this is your inevitable destiny.<<

The inevitable destiny of Allah is to be forgotten as the fevered imagination of an illiterate Arab.

>>[22:62] It is a fact that GOD is the Truth, while the setting up of any IDOLS beside Him constitutes a falsehood, and that GOD is the Most High, the Supreme.<<

Can you demonstrate this Truth?? Don't tell us that the Koran say so.

>>[22:73] O people, here is a parable that you must ponder carefully: the IDOLS you set up beside GOD can never create a fly, even if they banded together to do so. Furthermore, if the fly steals anything from them, they cannot recover it; weak is the pursuer and the pursued.<<

Can Allah demonstrate His power of creation? If you think that an earthquake or a tsunami is a demonstration of His power, I can as well tell you that the idol lying in my backyard was responsible for it. If Allah can, let Him demonstrate to the world now what He can do in a way no can dispute. Maybe He could turn all the US soldiers in Afghanistan to dust.

Allah thinks flies are capable of stealing stuff from us. Maybe licking an atom of water off my had is stealing? LOL

>>[24:55] GOD promises those among you who believe and lead a righteous life, that He will make them sovereigns on earth, as He did for those before them, and will establish for them the religion He has chosen for them, and will substitute peace and security for them in place of fear. All this because they worship Me alone; they never set up any IDOLS beside Me. Those who disbelieve after this are the truly wicked.<<

This promise of Allah is proven sadly wrong in Afghanistan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Sudan, Somalia. Muslims are still waiting for Allah's sovereignty on earth.

>>[25:17] On the day when He summons them, together with the IDOLS they had set up beside GOD, He will say, "Have you misled these servants of Mine, or did they go astray on their own?"<<

Another demonstration that Allah has given souls to idols. He questions them about who misled them and they reply:

Idols absolve themselves of misleading Allah's slaves. Who then misled those poor souls? Why did the idols not speak up and tell them to turn to Allah? So definitely they were at fault for not speaking up. That brings up the question of why Allah prevented them from speaking at the right moment and guide His slaves on the right path.

>>[27:59] Say, "Praise be to GOD and peace be upon His servants whom He chose. Is GOD better, or the IDOLS some people set up?"<<

Why can't the answer be idols are better than an abusing, cursing, angry Allah?

>>The Idols Disown Their Idolizers

[28:62] The day will come when He calls upon them, saying, "Where are those IDOLS you had set up beside Me?"

[28:64] It will be said, "Call upon your IDOLS (to help you)." They will call upon them, but they will not respond. They will suffer the retribution, and wish that they were guided!<<

Reading all these conversations that will happen on judgment day it looks as though Allah has already written the script for that day and idols and people will just involuntarily blurt them out. These conversations tell us that free will in Islam is a myth. Allah already knows exactly what the idols and their worshippers will say.

>>[28:74] The day will come when He asks them, "Where are the IDOLS you had fabricated to rank with Me?"<<

This is the bloated ego of the Almighty speaking.

>>[28:75] We will select from every community a witness, then say, "Present your proof." They will realize then that all truth belongs with GOD, while the IDOLS they had fabricated will abandon them.<<

Does this mean that the idols had protected them until this judgment day

>>[29:8] We enjoined the human being to honor his parents. But if they try to force you to set up IDOLS beside Me, do not obey them. To Me is your ultimate return, then I will inform you of everything you had done.<<

This a clear cut instruction from Allah to abandon the faith of your parents and forefathers.

>>[29:17] "What you worship instead of GOD are powerless IDOLS; you have invented a lie." The IDOLS you worship beside GOD do not possess any provisions for you. Therefore, you shall seek provisions only from GOD. You shall worship Him alone, and be appreciative of Him; to Him is your ultimate return.<<

What about Allah's lie that he is the most benevolent, all-merciful when all around you see senseless killings like the Mumbai massacres, diseases and disasters and adding insult to injury by dishonestly claiming to be all powerful.

>>[29:25] He said, "You worship beside GOD powerless IDOLS due to peer pressure, just to preserve some friendship among you in this worldly life. But then, on the Day of Resurrection, you will disown one another, and curse one another. Your destiny is Hell, wherein you cannot help one another."<<

A wonderful message from Allah, abandon your idol worshipping friends or face the consequences when you meet me on Resurrection Day. Allah will make you disown and curse one another (since the Koran says this is what will happen it means Allah has already decided the script for the Day).

>>[30:40] GOD is the One who created you. He is the One who provides for you. He is the One who puts you to death. He is the One who resurrects you. Can any of your IDOLS do any of these things? Be He glorified. He is much too exalted to have any partners.<<

Who says they can't do all those things Allah claims for Himself? The Koran. Idol worshippers think their idols are much too exalted over a cursing, abusive, threatening Allah.

>>[31:11] Such is the creation of GOD; show me what the IDOLS you set up beside Him have created. Indeed, the transgressors are far astray.<<

Keith, show us what this Allah you have set up as god has created and I will show what the idols some people worship have created.

>>[31:13] Recall that Luqman said to his son, as he enlightened him, "O my son, do not set up any IDOLS beside GOD; idolatry is a gross injustice."*

*31:13 How will you feel if you take care of a child, give him the best education, and prepare him for life, only to see him thank someone else? Thus is idolatry; injustice.<<

You have been attending a Pakistani madrassa, it seems. I have come across this funny justification for worshipping Allah from posters from that country.

I ask you, if I tell a child that I am all-powerful, all-merciful, all-benevolent and then make him into a paraplegic and refuse to create him whole would you be surprised if that child cursed me instead of loving me?? I can imagine only a Muslim berating the child for being ungrateful to his merciless creator.

>>[34:22] Say, "Implore the IDOLS you have set up beside GOD. They do not possess as much as a single atom in the heavens, or the earth. They possess no partnership therein, nor does He permit them to be His assistants."

[34:27] Say, "Show me the IDOLS you have set up as partners with Him!" Say, "No; He is the one GOD, the Almighty, Most Wise."<<

These two verses are more proof of Allah's sense of insecurity.

>>[35:40] Say, "Consider the IDOLS you have set up beside GOD; show me what on earth have they created." Do they own any partnership in the heavens? Have we given them a book wherein there is no doubt? Indeed, what the transgressors promise one another is no more than an illusion.<<

Keith, show me what on earth Allah has created and I will show what idols have created.

>>[37:22] Summon the transgressors, and their spouses, and the IDOLS they worshiped<<

Why is Allah summoning the spouses of the transgressors? And those so far lifeless idols will now spring to life and go running to Allah? Weird.

>>[37:91] He then turned on their IDOLS, saying, "Would you like to eat?

037.092 YUSUFALI: "What is the matter with you that ye speak not (intelligently)?"<<

Did Allah not inform Noah that idols have life and can speak and tell lies as they do before Him on judgment day? The idols probably thought it was beneath their dignity to talks to a silly old man and kept mum. Allah does the same too, by refusing to talk or eat in front of his lowly slaves.

>>[39:8] When the human being is afflicted, he implores his Lord, sincerely devoted to Him. But as soon as He blesses him, he forgets his previous imploring, sets up IDOLS to rank with GOD and to divert others from His path. Say, "Enjoy your disbelief temporarily; you have incurred the hellfire."<<

Allah threatening hellfire for setting up idols equal in rank to Him and once again exhibiting his insecurity.

>>[39:36] Is GOD not sufficient for His servant? They frighten you with the IDOLS they set up beside Him. Whomever GOD sends astray, nothing can guide him.<<

Allah telling us, as He does so often, that He misguides people.

>>[41:9] Say, "You disbelieve in the One who created the earth in two days, and you set up IDOLS to rank with Him, though He is Lord of the universe."<<

Allah takes two whole days to create the earth. This contradicts His claim to only having to say ‘be' and it is, (2:117, 3:59, 6:73).

>> [42:21] They follow IDOLS who decree for them religious laws never authorized by GOD. If it were not for the predetermined decision, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the transgressors have incurred a painful retribution.<<

Isn't Allah weird? He has taken a predetermined decision and then waits for a day far in the future to deliver that judgment. Why go to this trouble? Is it so that Muhammad can intercede and make Allah change His pre-determined decision? ROTFL

>>[45:10] Awaiting them is Gehenna. Their earnings will not help them, nor the IDOLS they had set up beside GOD. They have incurred a terrible retribution.<<

After reading 42:21 this sounds hilarious. This terrible retribution was predetermined. What is the purpose of revealing these verses if Allah has already taken a decision regarding everyone??

>>[46:5] Who is farther astray than those who idolize beside GOD IDOLS that can never respond to them until the Day of Resurrection, and are totally unaware of their worship?<<

Can you show of any incident of Allah responding to us now? Even in the case of Allah we have to wait for judgment day.This confused Allah also informs us that these idols will call their worshippers liars. How so? He also tells us that these poor unoffending idols will be consigned to the flames: 21:98 Lo! Ye and that which ye worship besides Allah are fuel for hell….

Keith, can you now doubt that you have a very strange being for a god?

>>[60:4] A good example has been set for you by Abraham and those with him. They said to their people, "We disown you and the IDOLS that you worship besides GOD. We denounce you, and you will see nothing from us except animosity and hatred until you believe in GOD ALONE." However, a mistake was committed by Abraham when he said to his father, "I will pray for your forgiveness,** but I possess no power to protect you from GOD." "Our Lord, we trust in You, and submit to You; to You is the final destiny.<<

This verse brings out the animosity and hatred Islam holds for unbelievers. Keith, Muslims can never tolerate non-Muslims if they believe in the Koran. These are the kinds of verses that gave rise to the Mumbai massacre.

>>[60:12] O you prophet, when the believing women (who abandoned the disbelievers) to seek asylum with you pledge to you that they will not set up any IDOLS besides GOD, nor steal, nor commit adultery, nor kill their children, nor fabricate any falsehood, nor disobey your righteous orders, you shall accept their pledge, and pray to GOD to forgive them. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.<<

This is the verse which Muhammad used to dishonestly wriggle out of one of the conditions of treaty of Hudaibiya.

>>[68:41] Do they have IDOLS? Let their IDOLS help them, if they are truthful.<<

Muslims have Allah. Let Allah help them in Palestine, Afghanistan, Iraq if Allah is truthful.

[72:2] " `It guides to righteousness, and we have believed in it; we will never set up any IDOLS besides our Lord.

>>[72:20] Say, "I worship only my Lord; I never set up any IDOLS besides Him."<<

You lord is even more helpless than the idols allah derides. He does not even have the power to show Himself to His believers. Why is Allah so terrified of showing Himself?

Regards

Plato

---

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".