bayezid: Does Allah know whether He is coming or going?

Submitted by Plato (India), Dec 23, 2008 at 11:10

bayezid, you wrote:

>>it is ALLAH's decision whom to guide and whom to misguide. we dont have a say here.<<

If this is true it means who is good, who is bad, who is a saint, who is a rapist are all Allah's doing. If I am an unbeliever it is because Allah wills me to be one. Why then does Allah rant and rave against the evil doers He has created?

>>all you can do is pray for HIS mercy. ALLAH is honset about it. good and evil are both from HIM.<<

What use would be my praying to Him for mercy? He has decided to misguide me so my prayers to Him will be useless. If my prayers do induce Allah to change His decision to misguide me then He is a being with a very pliable and easily influenced mind. He creates me to be evil and I pray to Him to be free of His misguidanc and He may deign to guide me to do good. Surely if you seriously believe this is Allah then either you must be joking or Allah is a joker.

>> there is no rival to HIM.<<

How do you know? The Koran told you? You very well know it is a book CLAIMED to have been revealed to an illiterate Arab. This Arab claimed a curious being no one had ever seen, who called himself Gabriel, revealed to him portions of what he claimed was the mother of all books written by that most curious unseen being of all, someone whom this Gabriel called Allah. No one can rival Muslims in being suckered.

>>this ayat is a consolidation of HIS lordship. it is a good peice of info.<<

Your interpretation of the verse is surely a very good piece of information on Allah's lordship. It informs us that this being who has set himself up as the lord of the universe is a Being gone berserk and we had better watch it lest his baleful eyes fall on us.

>>since it tells us all our hopes rest with HIM alone and not with any intercessors. and as or you being shook up by this, there is no reason.<<

Unfortunately for me Allah in his confused wisdom has given me some powers of thinking. A big mistake. Going by the verse and what you have said it leaves me with the conclusion that this Allah is a sadist. He misguides me and then imposes the most terrifying of punishments for following his misguidance.

>>since it is ALLAH alone who says HE rewards sincerity and love and answrs prayers. my advice : pray for guidance to HIM and you will receive it.<<

After all that you have said before what you now say has left me bemused. Here are your first two sentences: ‘it is ALLAH's decision whom to guide and whom to misguide. we dont have a say here.all you can do is pray for HIS mercy. ALLAH is honset about it. good and evil are both from HIM.'

You said good and evil are from Allah, therefore my evil is from Allah, my insincerity is from Allah as he has misguided me by His choice. Allah should also reward my evil and insincerity with paradise as it is Allah who willfully gave them to me.

>>actually ALLAH does imply the worth of knowing the self in the quran. im surprised how you with all your eloquence in thinking and mental brilliance failed to notice that. ALLAH keeps saying HE knows what is in our hearts and minds better than we do.<<

Quote the verse that says knowing the self is worthwhile. All you have said is that Allah knows what is in our hearts and that is not the same as knowing the self.

>> this is a gesture that we cant fool GOD by forcig ouselves to believe something false.<<

Has Allah designed humans with such little intelligence that unbelievers will force themselves to believe something they KNOW is false. This clearly is an indication of Allah being a poor designer.

>> because truth is truth and we all know it even if we lie about it. and ALLAH knows it best of all.<<

Again you are informing us that Allah has created humans who are pretty defective. People lie about truth. Why would Allah create such imbeciles? Oh I forgot, Allah has a gargantuan hell waiting to welcome these morons that He has created.

>>the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said that the one who knows himself, finds GOD.<<

This is a sahih hadith? Can you give the reference? This sounds very much like Mohammed learned it from a passing Hindu.

>>ALLAH can do what HE wants.<<

No, Allah cannot do what He wants. Can he forgive joining other gods with Him? A trick question for you to answer!

>>people dont worship ALLAH like its a businss deal.<<

You think worship of Allah is not a business deal? Why then does He promise paradise for not joining others with Him? You are given all sorts of pleasures for this little deal. But read this:

004.048 YUSUFALI: Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed.

You can be a thug, rapist or mass murderer, still Allah can forgive you (if He pleases) but if you install an inoffensive idol in your home, He goes apoplectic and He will ensure you burn for ever in His tandoor.

Here is a proper business deal you can have with Allah, all written and signed in the Mother of Books:

009.111 YUSUFALI: Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

You think I am interpreting it all wrong? Let me quote to you from one of the most respected tafsirs, by Ibn Kathir, of the Koran:

Allah has purchased the Souls and Wealth of the Mujahidin in Return for Paradise

Allah states that He has compensated His believing servants for their lives and wealth -- if they give them up in His cause -- with Paradise. This demonstrates Allah's favor, generosity and bounty, for He has accepted the good that He already owns and bestowed, as a price from His faithful servants. Al-Hasan Al-Basri and Qatadah commented, "By Allah! Allah has purchased them and raised their worth." Shimr bin `Atiyyah said, "There is not a Muslim but has on his neck a sale that he must conduct with Allah; he either fulfills its terms or dies without doing that." He then recited this Ayah. This is why those who fight in the cause of Allah are said to have conducted the sale with Allah, meaning, accepted and fulfilled his covenant. Allah's statement,

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=9&tid=22054

A nice little business deal Allah has contracted with Muslims. Read it carefully this is the only binding promise that Allah makes. bayezid, I would like you to come up with a tafsir of your own on 9:111.

>> i dont know how its done in your faith, but true devotion is for itself. knowing ALLAH means being at bliss. <<

9:111 tells us what is done in your faith. No other faith (even the parental faith of Islam, Judaism does not have anything to compare) has such an open invitation to kill or get killed for the wine and women in paradise.

>>so what ALLAH did to the caliphs was more than welcome to them. and for your info, ALLAH did martyr them in HIS cause thus sealing their fate as the heavenly ones once and for all. thats a good thing.<<

Great. Allah has some of his caliphs martyred (i.e. murdered) by someone He had guided to do the job. Now what about the poor killers whom Allah had guided (misguided??) to spill the blood of His rightly guided caliphs? Where do they end up, heaven or hell? Another trick question for you, bayezdi.

>>ALLAH sent us here to test us. not to keep us like kings.<<

Those who are kept as kings are also, I believe being tested. The man scrabbling for a discarded chappati (unleavened bread) in the garbage bin outside your home is also being tested. Do you see something as smelly as the garbage in Allah's tests here? I bet you cannot. Another trick question! Hint. Allah can do just as He pleases.

>> HE can give power to pagans for all we care , it is HIS will. our job is to carry out HIS commands.<<

Why then do Muslims weep and scream for the Palestinians. Allah gave power to His previous chosen people in Palestine. IT IS HIS WILL. It is also His will that Palestinian suicide bombers blow up little kids in buses. All is right with Allah's world. We can all sleep in peace, Allah's will is at work.

>> HE tests us in many ways and giving power to HIS enemies is one of them. to see how we fare.<<

So how are Mulims faring in their tests in Palestine, Afghanistan, Iraq… Allah has given power to His enemies. Who are muslims to complain to Allah as one hears from the pulpits of mosques in Muslim countries? Allah is testing Muslims after all.

>> let me also remind you, HE also gives his believers glorious victories, and HIS enemies crushing defeat.<<

The victory of the Indians over the Muslims of Pakistan was Allah trying the Muslims of that country. What about the Bangladeshi Muslims who were freed of Pakistani tyranny? Was this a glorious victory that Allah gave to the Muslims of Bangladesh? The Mukti Bahini were at the forefront of the struggle the Indians just gave the final push. These trick questions are so easy when normal logic comes up against Muslim logic!

How many knots have you tied yourself up in by now, bayezdi?

>>the hold is that a muslim has the strength of ten hindus actually. not two. <<

You have abrogated Verse 8:66?? Tauba. Tauba. How many of your previous lords and masters, the pure Muslims from Pakistan who considered Bengalis second rate Muslims, turned tail and surrendered to the Indian army by Allah's will? 80,000 if I remember right. By your math that would mean they should be have been able to take on a force of 800,000 Indians. Check how many Indians it took to route the Islamic army of Pakistan.

Remember writing: ‘ HE can give power to pagans for all we care..' Allah gave victory to the pagan Indians over the pure Muslims. Did you care? Do you care that the Indians gave you back your dignity from being considered second grade Muslims? Do you care that the pure Muslims from Pakistan killed and maimed a few hundreds in Mumbai? How could you. The Islamic army of Pakistan killed a few hundred thousands of your Muslim brethren, did they not?

>>HE gives power and HE takes it away.<<

Remember Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan. They are just the victims of Allah's whims, He gives and He takes away. Why don't Muslims stop whining and complaining if they really believe this Islamic dictum? Do you care what is happening in these countries, bayezdi?? This one should be easy, it is not a trick question.

>>but do you know what we all say to this ? ALLAHU AKBAR!! HE does what HE wills.<<

Right. ALLAHU AKBAR. Mumbai, 9/11, Palestine, Afghanistan, Darfur…all be damned. All is right with the world. ALLAHU AKBAR!!!

Regards

Plato

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