bayezid: Muslim nations are witness to the fact that the Koran is a very poor guide for us

Submitted by Plato (India), Jan 4, 2009 at 04:53

bayezid, you wrote:

>>i dont care about exmples of muslim countries worldwide, because honestly, none of them govern themselves using any islamic tenets. they may call themselves muslim countries, but their administrative styles and the objectives they are geared to achieving are anything but islamic. saudi arabia is run by at sheikhs that care litle for ALLAH's laws and are aftre incrasing hteir own wealth. the iraninas follow a deviated teaching and then call thmeselves muslims. they dont even have islamic law. pakistan, bangladesh may call themselve muslim countires their institutions and peoples way of life resemble anything but islams. no wonder theres no good governance. their is no conformity to laws of god.<<

A very neat statement of the fact that the Koran is useless as a guide for human affairs. According to you none of the countries where the majority are Muslim have anything resembling Islamic government. I feel so sorry for your Allah. He is incapable of having his laws implemented even in Muslim majority countries. What you have stated is very similar to what the Communists used to state about the horrors committed in the name of Marx (like you have done for Islam).The misrule was attributed to the fact none of the states were really communist, they were only at the socialistic state of development. Marx could not be blamed as they were not following all Marxian principles. Just Islam cannot be blamed because none of the Muslim countries are following Islamic principles.

You are left only with the now defunct Caliphate and Taliban who enforced pure Islamic shariah as examples of good Islamic administration.

>>according to your supposition, muslims are intolerant of other religions. <<

It is not a supposition. The Koran tells you to be intolerant of other faiths. Read 9:29 and 3:85 and 61:9

>>thats a sad thought. on your part. in bangladesh there are msque just beside buddhist temples and churches. our local graveyard has a mosque in it and it is next door tto the second oldest church in dhaka. so what are you talking aout ?<<

We are talking about the verses I have referred to above. You have to keep a semblance of tolerance as you still have a few million Hindus and Christians. Llike your former masters did in Pakistan if your Jamaat e Islami party gains power then the minorities will be given a tough time and forced to leave of their own accord).

Having a temple or church near a mosque is not a measure of tolerance. It is what you think of Hindus and Christians that counts. Your Allah tells you that idol worshippers are fodder for his Hell. He tells you they are najees, deaf , dumb, perverts and like dogs. Allah clearly tells you not to befriend them. What kind of tolerance are you talking about, bayezid??

>>in mosques we keep the bible nd the torah as well since we consider them to be our scriptures as well. we dont follow them like jews or christians but we still read them for knowledge. and al quran is the ultimate book that ALLAH sent as guidance.<<

You read the Bible and Torah for knowledge and the Koran for guidance. How well are you guided by the Koran in Bangladesh? Your people refused to elect a sharia-loving party, the Jamaat e Islami, to govern you, which means the majority of Bangladeshi Muslims are not interested in this guidance from Allah.

>>ALLAH says there is no compusion in religion. islam was never forced to people.<<

What meaning do you read into this verse: 061.009 YUSUFALI: It is He Who has sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth, that he may proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it). (Pikthal says ‘conqueror' and Shakir says ‘overcome' instead of ‘proclaim')

How do you proclaim/conquer/overcome it over the religion of the pagans when they detest it?

>> the staggering growth of islamic population you have witnessed throughout the ages is because people accepted islam willingly. i know the history of my land as well. in india the preachers of islam came first. and then came traders. the buddhist and hindus came to know about islam and accepted in droves. in flocks. <<

Read 9:29, 3:85 and 61:9 again for the answer. Even the Quraish came to Islam in ‘droves' only when they found the Prophet's sword hanging over their necks. Surah 110 is all about people entering Islam in ‘droves', ‘flocks' and ‘troops'. There are still 900 million Hindus on the subcontinent. Do you see them entering Islam in ‘droves and flocks'??What is stopping them now when they have total freedom of religion unlike in the past? Brahminic propaganda, BJP, VHP threats?

>>the hindus in power , the hindu kings in bngladesh could not tolerate this and so began massacaring muslims. in india, we have proof of hindus religious intolerance, not muslims.<<

Give us some references to this massacre of Muslims by Hindus by chroniclers of the time. I will quote to you what Muslim historians of the time have chronicled of atrocities committed by Muslims:

The Chachnama (Tarikh-I Hind wa Sind) taken from the The History India, as told by its own historians, Vol I, edited by Sir H.M. Elliiot and John Dowson states on page 164: The nephew of Dahir, his warriors and principal officers have been dispatched and the infidels converted to Islam or destroyed. Instead of idol temples, mosques and other places of worship have been built….

Page 182, under ‘The Brahamans come to Muhammad Kasim':…Those who embraced Islam were exempted from slavery, the tribute and the poll-tax…

Vol III, Tazjiyatul Amsar, under ‘The conquest of Somnat'….The Muhammadan forces began to "kill and slaughter on the right and left unmercifully, throughout the impure land, for the sake of Islam," and blood flowed in torrents….

They took captive a great number of handsome and elegant maidens, amounting to 20,000, and children of both sexes… In short the Muhammadan army brought the country to utter ruin and destroyed the lives of the inhabitants, and plundered the cities……so that many temples were deserted and the idols were broken and trodden under foot…..

Now here is the Indian mode of war as stated by a Muslim historian: Vol I Salsilatu-t tawarikh of the Merchant Sulaiman, Page7..The Indians sometimes go to war for conquest, but the occasions are rare. I have never seen the people of one country submit to the authority of another, except in the case of that country which comes next to the country of pepper. When a king subdues a neighbouring state, he places over it a man belonging to the family of the fallen prince…The inhabitants would not suffer it to be otherwise.

>>………..forbidden for them to eat it. a false cclaim. in fatc in the smritis and shrutis this fct was never mentioned. insted there were accounts of hindu kings of the past who slaughtered so many bulls and buffalos, that the rivers ran red with blood.<<

I have shown you what Muslim historians of the time have written about massacres of humans that had blood flowing in torrents. You have only stated without any reference that Hindu kings slaughtered animals which caused the blood to flow in torrents.

>>muslims cant afordd to compete, because there isn o competition here. ALLAH says truth has been made clear from falsehood.<<

Allah Himself revealed false ayat. He abrogates some ayat by revealing better ones later, which by corollary mean the previous ones were false. These false ayat still exist in the Koran.

>> the truthfl ones will hearken to ALLAH, and the evil ones go ashtray.<<

Both truthful ones and the evil ones were created by Allah to be what they are. This is as per your own claim.

>>so muslims dont hold this thought that they must spread islam with foirce if necessary. it is not about increasing numbers. it is about enriching what we have. quality and not quantity.<<

Read 9:29, 61:9, 3:85 one more time with an open mind. Islamic countries, including Bangladesh have quantity not quality. Which is why Bangladeshis are smuggling themselves into India to experience the much richer quality of life there. Which is why there are serpentine queues in front of Western embassies in Muslim countries. Muslim countries have quantity but very little quality. Have you heard of any Hindus or Christians lining up to migrate to Muslim countries (some do to work in the oil-rich one and return as soon their contracts are over, no one wants to stick around more than absolutely necessary). That is the difference between having a quality life as against an Islamic one which is full of idiotic taboos like no pork or alcohol, no touching dogs, women not allowed to move around freely. Islam is a religion of taboos and no freedom.

>>you have been deluded by the press. how else is your sad condition explained ?<<

Our sad condition is explained by the sad book of instructions Muslims follow and not the press. This sad book tells Muslims to fight and be killed or kill for which Allah GUARANTEES them the pleasures of paradise. Read Koran 9:111

>>you quote muslims terrorist this and that. i guarantee you that nomal peole have no complaint about islam or muslims.<<

Who are these normal people who do not complain about Islam. Show us some.

>>so you lie when you say thatyou hear people say ill abt islam.<<

Was the press lying when they reported the disgust felt by most non-Muslims at the violence unleashed by a few cartoons?

>> the only thing sadder than your false facts is your desperation to mar the face of something good. with a nature like that you cannot benefit yourself or anyone else.<<

State some of the false facts you know about Islam. Muslim terrorists mar the face of Islam more than the press. Muslim nations show up the deficiencies in Islam by the suppression that is practiced in almost every Islamic country on the planet. Imitating the prophet ridiculous fatwas that and go against all concepts of justice are issued. (Do you remember the suckling for parenthood one by Al Azhar, or the husband and wife separated because the father-in-law raped his daughter in law?)

Regards

Plato

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