bayezid: Like the Veda the Koran also admits Allah does not know everything as He abrogates His verses

Submitted by Plato (India), Jan 2, 2009 at 06:59

bayezid, you wrote:

>>HE is all knowing. then why does the veda say he might not know?<<

Even the Koran admits that Allah is not all knowing despite His claims. He tells you He abrogates verses which on reflection He considers defective.

>> speaking of GOD like he is weak is untrue according to HIS nature and is thus blasphemy.<<

When you can't answer a question about Allah you shoot it down by saying asking is blasphemy. Zakir Naik uses this blasphemy weapon when he could not explain the discrepancy in the Koran of the number of days of creation.

The Koran decides what His nature is. Why should anyone who does not believe in it accept the claim.

>> this blasphemy came from the veda you actually used this to contecst the quranic revelation ? how quaint.<<

You don't see how quaint your answer is, do you? YOU claim what the Vedas have said is blasphemy (YOUR CLAIM). You use this claim of YOURS to question my contesting Koranic revelation.

>>with all due respect, your grandfather did not create you or himself.<<

Bring your proof for my grandfather not having created me. Just as Muhammad claimed that Allah created the universe without any proof, I claim that my grandfather created me (at least I can bring my and my grandfather's DNA to the table. It is now up to you to prove it just as you expect me to prove that Allah does not exist.

Quoting the Koran is not good enough, because I can quote the Vedas to you.

>>ALLAH did.<<

Bring your proof.

>>so if your grandfather said he did, he must be a lunatic. this is ALLAH we are talking bout here.<<

This is my grandfather who created me you are talking about as a lunatic. Why should not I consider Muhammad to be a lunatic for proclaiming Allah to be the creator of the universe without a shred of proof.

>> HE can do all things. yet again, thats why HE is called GOD. get it ?? sigh....<<

So can the Pink Rabbit sitting somewhere on Saturn's moon Grand Infidel of Kaffiristan has told you about. That is why He is called the Pink Rabbit. Get it??

>>this is insulting to your ownself, my friend. we were talking about GOD's power and here you are talking about HIS complex commands. two different things. HE makes unbelievers.<<

If He makes unbelievers why does He complain about them being unbelievers in the Koran?? Are you sure it is not the nine-year-old nephew you mentioned who is answering me?

>> but HE also give them the disposition of unbelievers. from the start. its HIS will. there is no injustice here.<<

Now I am convinced it is your nephew who is answering my queries. I will try and go to his level to answer you:

Allah uses His will to give unbelievers the disposition of unbelievers from the time He gives them life. He then curses and abuses them in the Koran. Allah then tells us in the Koran unbelievers are being unjust to Him by not worshipping Him.

How old will your nephew have to be before he begins to appreciate that it is not the unbeliever who is unjust but Allah for having made him an unbeliever and punishing him for it.

>> its not like HE makes believers and good people go ashtray. only those whom HE willed during their creation.<<

Why would Allah do a silly thing like making good people go astray? He made them good and wants them to remain so doesn't He? Nor would he make the silly mistake of guiding those He willed during creation to go astray onto the right path. For then even a five-year-old will howl with laughter at a God who does not know His own mind. I suspect that really is the case given the utter confusion Allah demonstrates in the Koran. This confusion seems to have rubbed off onto your poor nephew.

I think your nephew must be even younger than nine. Please tell him that he better consult you before answering for him before he ties himself up in untieable knots.

>>what you are doing is questionng GOD here. acting like you know better. this shows mental ilness on your part. i hope u realize this.<<

I realise this much, it takes a severe kind of mental illness to make sense of what you are saying.

>> an ilness stimulated and stipulated by your own self. when will you realize HE alone does it best ?<<

Allah has stipulated, as you have told me several times, that I be an unbeliever. And as you say He is the best stipulator. I accept this great power of Allah. But what I cannot for the life of me understand is why He has left me with enough intelligence to wonder why He STIPULATES that I be a bad character and then punishes me for what He has done?

>>thats why HE is called GOD in the first place. no equal to him or anything like him.<<

How can anybody equal a being who creates me to be evil and then punishes me for what He has done.

oh please quote. im all eyes and ears. that way youll know where the chips fall.

As your nine-year-old nephew seems to be answering I know where the chips will fall. Either he will not answer or make statements which he thinks are self-evident. But here are the verses for your nephew to consider.

3:110:Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors.

009.095 YUSUFALI: They will swear to you by Allah, when ye return to them, that ye may leave them alone. So leave them alone: For they are an abomination, and Hell is their dwelling-place,-a fitting recompense for the (evil) that they did.

8:55 Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe.

006.039 YUSUFALI: Those who reject our signs are deaf and dumb,- in the midst of darkness profound: whom Allah willeth, He leaveth to wander: whom He willeth, He placeth on the way that is straight.
002.171
YUSUFALI: The parable of those who reject Faith is as if one were to shout Like a goat-herd, to things that listen to nothing but calls and cries: Deaf, dumb, and blind, they are void of wisdom.

007.179
YUSUFALI: Many are the Jinns and men we have made for Hell: They have hearts wherewith they understand not, eyes wherewith they see not, and ears wherewith they hear not. They are like cattle,- nay more misguided: for they are heedless (of warning).

002.018
YUSUFALI: Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path).

Bayezid, there is a nice exercise you can do (suggested by an ex-Muslim). In the above verses substitute ‘they'and ‘those' wherever they occur with the word ‘Muslim' and tell me how it sounds then.

Also read the verses before and after these and look for the context in which they were revealed to find out if they are now time-expired and worthless and to be consigned to the waste basket.

Regards

Plato

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