bayezid: You may be amused but I am bemused

Submitted by Plato (India), Dec 23, 2008 at 11:14

bayezid, you wrote:

>>and that is why you are an unbeliever. big whoop. but hey ,at least you are amusing.<<

You whooped too soon. Remember your saying Allah does what He wills. I am an unbeliever because He willed it! Now how amusing is that? Worth a whoop?

>>YUSUFALI: None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that A.

i suspect you dont have good grasping ability.<<

You are right. My grasping ability is limited to normal logic not the Islamic variety.

>> ALLAH is talking about our shortcomings here. not HIS. HE is talking bout our ability to understand them or remember them. it is simply saying thjat HE maintains the quran better than anyone else for us. so there is no fear of us missing out on anything.<<

Sorry, forgive my inability to understand Islamic logic,I will have to use normal logic to understand what you are trying to say. As far as I can see (due to the limited vision Allah has willed to me) there are only Wes and Our in this verse. Where is any mention of our shortcomings. Reading between the lines is one thing but reading a whole new story between the two lines of this verse boggles my mind.

Allah is not being quite honest with you if you think that that is what He is saying. He proved incompetent to protect His previous words that He gave to thousands of other prophets. What is the guarantee that He will succeed with this one. Bayezid, if you have been reading some of the other articles on Danielpipes (especially dhimmi no more) you will realize that Allah has not protected His latest revision to his words (except in the unfathomable minds of Muslims).

>> HE can do that if HE likes. by that HE is letting us know that HE is forgiving and merciful. and HE is the bet of preservers. and HE also means that the previous revelations are not forgotten , they are simply modified by HIM or made better.<<

Your continuation of the story is interesting for the fact that you are admitting that Allah is not always perfect in His words. Allah could not get His words right many times in the past. What kind of an omniscient Allah is this? After thousands of trials and errors Muslims seem to think that He got it right finally in the Koran. LOL what an all-powerful Allah.

>>008.065YUSUFALI: O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding.

notice the last statement? yeah? HE is talking about you. this is saying tht it dosent matter how scarce believers may be. the granter of victory and defeat is HE. so it dosent matter if you are weak or strong, HE decides the outcome. and HE does! know of the weakness of believers. but who told you HE is counting on their strength? lol. strength and weakness are from HIM alone. HE dosnt depend on your strenght, we all depend on HIS. thas the moral of the story here. ALLAH does not go by logic that we re confined within. HE makes it.

>>016.101 YUSUFALI: When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not.

would you rather have ALLAH being too stern and give you all of the revelation in one go? you have got to be out of your mind .<<

Allah changing and substituting his revelations at His convenience is enough to drive any one out of his mind. Are we allowed to take and keep slaves now. Why has He not revealed a verse that prohibits the abhorrent Islamic laws that allow slavery?

>>what this means is from time immemorial ALLAH revealed messages to man. for mans benefit of course. HE did it slowly and in small amounts so that poeple dont find it too hard. its a sign of HIS kindness, not impotence.<<

Allah was kind enough to bring the ban on alcohol down gently (to help alleviate withdrawal symptoms, no doubt). He banned usury in one swell swoop. All those Muslim who had borrowed money now could freely use other people's without paying a cost. But Allah's kindness does not seem to trickled down to the slaves in Muslim hands. Allah has yet to substitute the laws that allow slavery. What is He waiting for? To bring in a verse that dethrones Muhammad from his position as the seal of prophets? All things are possible for Allah but He seems to tied Himself up well and proper by appointing Muhammad as His last prophet.

>>and there is a substitution of one revelation after another. consider moses and jesus. both were sent to israelites. but jesus with the latest message. jesus came after moses. so if i follow jesus now than moses, i am not disbeliever. in fact, i am believer. both prophets were here for GOD's reason. and now we have Muhammad peace be upon him. so if i follow him and not jesus, i am not disbeliever , iam believer.<<

More gobbledygook. Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmed came after Muhammad. Why don't you follow him? Allah does claim that He can change His mind about anything and that should include changing the seal of prophets.

>>Allah doth blot out or confirm what He pleaseth: with Him is the Mother of the Book

hahahahahahah. sorry. couldnt help it. again, HE is talking about previous revelations and there correlation to islam, the ltest revelation and final revelation. in moses time, if you did not attend sabbath, you would be killed ! yes ! but not in islam. it is still a sin but you cant be killed for it. so ALLAH modified it. its basically the same thing i said before above.<<

Don't whoop too often. You might catch whooping cough. You are again hahahaing Allah's capability to write good laws the first time round. How many poor Jews had to be killed before Allah realized that killing people for not keeping the Sabbath is a bit too harsh and likely to tarnish His image of a merciful god? What a ridiculous is this god, not knowing which laws are good and which bad until He has experimented for thousands of years.

>>i am sorry to say most of your scriptures are corrupted. and the quran isnt our scripture. its everybodys scriture. ALLAH says so, not me.<<

ALLAH DID NOT TELL YOU. He told Gabriel, who Muhammad claimed repeated it to him. Muhammad in turn repeated what he claimed Gabriel had said to some Arabs. Some of those Arabs who heard him wrote it down or memorized them and after he died compiled it into a book. You READ this book and you BELIEVED this book. Allah did not tell you, please remember this little fact.

>>ALLAH does not tell us to beat wives at mere suspicion. in fact ALLAH tells us not to beat our wives at all !! what is beating is explained by HIS prophet, as a lighjt tap. hardly a beating. but im sure youll make something out of it.<<

Yes I will make something out of it: 004.034 YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. ……. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly…

Your Allah is telling you that just for fearing disloyalty or ill-conduct you are authorized to beat them. The words in parentheses are put in there by the translator and do not exist in the Arabic Koran. But let us for arguments sake agree that women can be beaten lightly. And what is the reason Allah gives for this unethical act? Men are stronger than women/or are given more than them. If a boxer is your boss and provides your salary is it alright for him to box yours ears (lightly) if he suspects your loyalty?

Muhammad confirmed that you can thrash your wives for he says they are like prisoners/slaves in men's hands. And like you feed and take care of your slaves and prisoners you are asked to feed and clothe your wives and treat them kindly. Read the last sermon for confirmation (Tabari, Ibn ishaq).

>> we really wont be surprised if you pass laws that one cannot even touch his wife in america or engalnd or wherever youre screaming from.<<

You got that right, bayezid. You can't touch your wives, or any other woman for that matter, without her permitting you to. That is what our laws make loud and clear. Our courts will jail any man who makes a woman cover or scream with fear.

>> and as for the killin part. why dont you stop killing murderes? or pedophiles? <<

We, in most Un-islamic countries, have stopped killing humans for any reason whatsoever. We consider people who kill, maim, or assault children to be the result of Allah's bad design. So in deference to Allah's creation, faulty though it is, we don't chop off their heads or blow out their brains, but we put them away where they cannot cause any more harm. Vengeance and a life for a life may be Allah's idea of justice. We think it is barbaric.

>>or cockroaches? hmm?<<

This is a tough one. Hmm.Umm.Hummm. It is tough to answer this one. I will pass.

>>what crime is greater than disbelieving or disrespecting GOD. ONE for WHOM all is. <<

God, if He exists, can do without His creation's respect. What purpose does disrespecting God serve? Why would an all-knowing Allah create people who would disrespect Him?

>>and besdies, morality is based on HIS decision not yours.<<

Yes we know all about morality being Allah's decision. He did allow the prophet to sleep with a child, He did allow the prophet to marry his own daughter in law, He did allow the prophet to break his oath to his wives about sleeping with maria, He does allow Muslims to have sex with captured slave girls even if they have living husbands. Allah's morality is so DIVINE!

>> you can stop pretending to be bigger than GOD now.<<

Let Allah show Himself to me and I will stop all such pretence.

>>the first thing the mullah taught me is ALLAH is ONE. disbelievers are unclean.<<

What made you believe the mullah's words?? If you had been born in a Hindu household the Brahmin would have taught you that Allah is in you and you can worship whatever you want because Allah is in whatever you worship.

He would not have dared told you that low-castes are unclean as he would end up in jail pretty quickly.

>> if you are not obeying GOD you are being ruled by the devil. the devl is defeinitely uncelan. do you feel bad about this?<<

The devil is an invention of Allah. Why would Allah create an unclean devil? I feel bad that more than a billion people believe that Allah can create an unclean object.

>> be a believer. <<

Believe in an Allah who creates unclean people, and the devil? You got to be kidding.

>>ALLAH is all merciful and tuns previous bad deeds to good. HE says so HIMSELF.<<

This is interesting. I have missed out on this verse. Please quote the verse number, it is surely a collector's item. I have read of His forgiving previous sins but not of turning them into good deeds. A serial pedophile or a mass murderer if he repents and accepts Islam will have his deeds turned into good ones. This sounds so good and in keeping with Allah's all-merciful image. I wonder how Allah does that without bringing back the murdered to life and were thankful for being murdered or making the children feel that they had a good time with their molester. Silly me, I forgot that for Allah all things are possible.

>>excuse me. if GOD shouldnt have an ego, who should?<<

And excuse me, you are making Allah into a creature with a human mentality. Having an ego means you will get angry when somebody rubs it the wrong way or being pleased if you massage it with sugary sweet words. Allah's ego is not an ordinary ego. In keeping with His acclaimed powers He is an ego maniac. Does Allah not fly into an uncontrollable rage if you worship a bit of wood or a block of stone? Does He not promise you wine and women in plenty if you massage his ego by praying, glorifying and groveling before Him?

>>its bad for you to hav ego since youre only a shadow,…<<

I am more substantial than a shadow. Would I be arguing with you otherwise?

>>HE can be egoistic all HE wants since HE is REALITY. but ALLAH does not show HIS ego.<<

Now you are making me whoop. Allah is one big gigantic bloated EGO. In fact Allah's other name can easily be the Almighty EGO. Just read the al fatiha: Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds, The Beneficent, the Merciful, Owner of the Day of Judgment, Thee alone we worship….

Even Kim Il Jong would be embarrassed listening to his subjects praise him thus. But then as you rightly keep repeating we are talking of Allah, the Almighty EGO. Do you see any sign of Allah trying to hide His EGO anywhere in the Koran?

>> in fact HE is patient. thats why you dont get struck by lightning everytime you are saying blsphemous things. that is why HE allows disbelieving people to be prosperous as well as believers.need i say more?<<

I nearly whooped again, but remembered my warning about catching a bad cough. I am thankful to Allah for not burning me up with lightning. But, bayezid, have you asked yourself why Allah does not do so. You seem to forget that you have told me several times that what I am is Allah's responsibility. He has created me to get into an argument with you about Allah. He wants me to say what I am saying about Him. Why then should lightning strike me down?

>>finally, HE decides what HE does. wihtout your or my input. see thats why HE is GOD.lets remember that. so if HE decides that a horse will jump out of our bodily orifices everytime we sneeze, who are you really to say otherwise?<<

Exactly what I told you in the para above. You have only phrased it differently. Allah decided what I am. He created me to question His existence and to argue with you. Hopefully He has not decided that our argument will be fruitless.

But you know what, bayezid, your picture of horses jumping out of my orifices when I sneeze has frightened me more than all the other powers you claim for Allah. I must remember to stock up on my sneeze-guard before Allah decides to carry out your threat. Oh silly me, once again, Allah can always make them sprout out without even my sneezing.

Regards

Plato

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