response to plato explaining to him how he harms himself

Submitted by bayezid (Bangladesh), Jan 4, 2009 at 08:30

i did read those ayahs. and ill even present them here. this is no competition against you, but consider this as help from a believing brother ok.

you said ALLAH curses your kind of people here, but lets see for what reason. also how are you so sure you are cursed by ALLAH? may ALLAH forbid it is true. mybe youre just confused. anyway, lets look at the reasons for god cursing his slaves.

>> 3: 25 – But this self-deception cannot save them from the day for which there is no doubt. At that day, everyone will get exactly for what he has worked for and no one will be dealt with unjustly.

see the underlined words? ALLAH is referring to some peoples denial of the truth. why would a normal person want to deny truth? so denying truth is a cime. a crime to ones own self. how can you blame HIM for cursing you when you act unjustly with your own self thus deserving the curse?

>> 3: 86 – Those who acknowledged their Eman and their rasool has established the Islamic Society which is the living testament to the truth and after (all this) if they turn towards the course of kufr, then who can guide them?

And Allah's Laws are such that the zalemin cannot be addressed to receive His Guidance.

>> 3: 87 – These (kind of) people [see 3: 86] will not receive any blessings of Allah nor will they have the support of Malaekah and the righteous people.

look at the verses again carefully. 'those turn to kufr(unbelief) ' and'zalemin'(oppressors to own self and others). both are negative things . so if someine wilfuly chooses them, why should ALLAH not curse them? if you have the ability to know right from wron, why will you want to be a zalim? but some people still do. and only afte this choice does ALLAH curse them. not before .

>> 3: 61 – If anyone disputes with you in this matter after so clear arguments then say, "It is not our way to waste time on futile disputes. We go our way and you follow your own way. We should not interfere in each other's and the results will show who is deprived of Allah's Benedictions."

this verse simply shows how muslims should avoid disputes of faith. ALLAH is suggesting that truth will be truth. there is no need to quarrel about its authenticity. islam is from ALLAH and in the end those who denied it will see they were wrong.

>> The Jews call Uzair the son of Allah, and the Nasara[1] call al-Masih the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth. They only imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the truth. {9:30}

yet agin, we see the reason for ALLAH cursing some people. after they hide the truth from themselves an others. giving THE GOD human qualities means limiting HIM. why would anyone want to say such things about the GOD they all love? so saying somethng liek this is harming ones own belief. and ALLAH harms none other than those who harm themselves.

>> 2:161. Those who reject Faith, and die rejecting,- on them is Allah.s curse, and the curse of angels, and of all mankind;

>> 2:165. Yet there are men who take (for worship) others besides Allah, as equal (with Allah.: They love them as they should love Allah. But those of Faith are overflowing in their love for Allah. If only the unrighteous could see, behold, they would see the penalty: that to Allah belongs all power, and Allah will strongly enforce the penalty.

all these verses show the reason for ALLAH cursing people.

>> I can curse myself, but I don't do it as often as Allah does.

hahah first of all we dont know if ALLAH really curses you or not. ok? you say you dont curse yourself, but cursing ccan mean damning oneself by denial of truth. cursing simply isnt someone saying 'i wish bad to myself'. if you are aware of the qurans truth and Muhammad pbuh's truth, and then hide it , then you will be cursed. but not otherwise. it could be that you dont understand islam well yet for which you say bad things about it. so i suggest you stop fighting your own soul and me and just understand islam for yourself.

>>

Who else can I blame? Remember writing these sentences:

1. yeah youre right. youre catching on. you are unbeliever cuz HE willed it is right

2. but do you realize that HE also wills that you are too stupid to realize that HE has given you the capability to ask HIM for guidance and so you are unabale to even wish to be a bekliever.

3. one can only wonder what is keeping you from improving your condition. whatever does happen and does not, all is by HIS will"

yes i wrote them to you. i meant to show you how we deserve the blame. supposing that you are cursed, im not saying for sure you are, then it means it is a thing to be worried about , right? i mean you do care for yourself, dont you? i mean being unbeliever means denying the truth. so hat must meanthere is truth but you re denying it purposefully? isn it similar to you walking in the highway with your eyes wilfully closed ?

so if this is the case and you know it, why dont you open your eye? im sure you don wantto get hit by a truck or fall down a manhole. dont you want to?

lets say you dont want to, then it means you cant blame anyone but urself. ur own self. it is because no one wants to harm you intentionally. but you wish to harm yourself intentionally. so it is your fault. and here you are blaming ALLAH for cursing you. you hav given HIM a reason to curse you.

>>

Let us see what Allah does. He creates me to be an unbeliever who has been programmed to be an unbeliever even before I am born. Allah brings meinto the world, and as per Allah's design I refuses to believe in Him. This infuriates Allah no end and He goes about abusing me for not believing in Him exactly as He had designed me not to. Allah actually blames me for it and consigns me to hell. You see the beautiful unshakeable Islamic logic in this don't you, oh great bayezid?"

i completely agree to what you say, but i am simply asking you now : how are you so sure ALLAH destined you to unbelief? only ALLAH knows what he did. you or i dont. there are many atheists that became muslims. so what does this show? it shows you dont know your destiny yet. people that seemed hellbound turned to ALLAH suddenly and became the best of the believers. the great companions of the prophet wer once the worst disbelievers before they came to islam. who could have known that these people were going to be so good one day?

so why do you keep saying you are unbeliever ??? do you wilfully choose to be unbeliever? do you know how ALLAH programmed you? ALLAH only mentions this general information for us. but the details only HE knows.

i appreciate you are thinking about this. one more thing, unbelievers really dont think about this. but you are thinking. so please, think real hard and real deep.please understand that in no way am i attacking you now but i am trying to be a good slave to ALLAH myself.

>>

Does this mean that I have a choice in my belief? Now read this aya: 010.099
YUSUFALI: If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe!

How in Allah's name can I hearken to His words if He has created me to not hearken to His words? Only Islamic logic will rescue you here."

like i said, ALLAH is talking about a level we can only imagine and never understand. this is the level of setting destinies. you dont know your destiny . this is what ALLAH says. there is nothing to worry about if you are a conscious being. and the funny thing is, unbelievers and disbelievers are hardly conscious of it. they dont want to know. they dont care.

so this is a question u need to ask urself. do you think like them? or not. your choice.

ALLAH also tells us to ask HIM for help. so ask god for help if u respct yourself an want good for yourself. can you not do that? are you unable to do that? you dont need money or anything for it, just talk to god. dont follow any damn religion for the moment. just talk to god and ask him for guidance. and please be respectful of god.

>>

How in Allah's name can I ‘do that' if He has created me not to do it??

how do you know for sure HE created you not to believe ????????? im ripping the hair out of my own head now !!! does GOD send you letters ? does he telephone you or send you emails telling you HE hates you? why are u so adamant on thinking that you are damned . i could be damned but i dont know it. so what i act like a muslim. only ALLAH knows that. sigh .....

>> No I am not doing what it takes to please Allah because He created me to make Him hopping mad or sigh with sadness at what He made me do."

do you know abu bakar siddiq? ill tell you. he was the propehts best friend. but do you know what he was before he accepted islam? he buried his own daughter alive in the ground as per the tradition of pagan arabia !!! as he was doing it his daughter did not know it and rubbed the earth from her fathers face as he was digging a hole. accunts say that he shed a tear as he saw that.

so what would you call him ? good or bad? heaven bound or hell bound? he accepted islam and is one of the greatest muslims of the past. of course he repented to ALLAH and asked HIM for forgiveness for the things he did in the past.and ALLAH forgave HIM. the prophet assured him he was goingto paradise. there are other examples like this.

look, HE is waiting to forgive us all. we have to get ourself to ask for forgiveness, thats it. and we are all sinners. and yes, so am i. i have done bad things too and i pray that ALLAH forgives me.

>>

You have told me in no uncertain terms that Allah has denied me the capability to ask for His guidance. How do I go against what He has willed?"

i was using this as a case study to explain something to you. and i was also replying to your arrogant ways of taking about ALLAH. thats why i told you that.

but question is : are you truly incapable or capable..... of asking ALLAH for help. who cares what i think or say to you, ALLAH knows best. ask yourself this quetion.

just because i tell u ur this dosent make u that. you shoud kno abt urself mre than another person. and let us remember, ALLAH knows us personally and HE knows us all the best.

>>

You keep forgetting that Allah has made me so stupid that I do not know that I cannot ask such silly things as asking for proof of Allah's existence. Since I am so stupid it would be child's play for you to demonstrate Allah's existence. Even children younger than my mental age know that to accept anything without proof, even Allah's existence, is to be a fool of the highest order."

look i truly am sorry if i misjudged you. i was only explaining to you why you shudnt be so arrognt to ALLAH. but look how do you know HE does not love you more than HE loves me, a muslim? only HE knows those things.

so stop telling to yourself that you are damned and cursed. and just ask ALLAH, in your own way to guide u always.

i am writing it down to you now. you can hold this against me if you think i am lying. just ask ALLAH tto keep guiding you nd do it sincerely ok. understand the situation. and ull see, that god helps u and shows u things u never thot ud see.

100 percent true.

>> 2:159. Those who conceal the clear (Signs) We have sent down, and the Guidance, after We have made it clear for the people in the Book,-on them shall be Allah.s curse, and the curse of those entitled to curse,-

ok this is very reasonable, isnt it? to disbelieve is one thing, but to prevent others from believing is also crime. this is what ALLAH talks about here. we see many people fitting this profile on daniel pipes. for what reason do thy conceal the trtuh? it can only mean these people are evil who do not want good. so else deserves curses than these? i ask you.

>> 2:160. Except those who repent and make amends and openly declare (the Truth): To them I turn; for I am Oft-returning, Most Merciful.

but ALLAH does forgive anyone and everyone that repents. does not mean what he or shes done. so everyone is given a choice. why should you blame god if you wilfully mke th wrong decisions after you know the truth?

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