still no answers

Submitted by the Grand Infidel of Kaffiristan (Australia), Dec 26, 2008 at 00:19

Mr. Bayezid, incessantly trying to prove the veracity and supremacy of his Islamist belief system writes:

"your comments grow more and more hysterical with every post."
I think you might be reflecting your own mental state there.
I've re-read wha I have written. I detect no hysteria. Please show me which phrases seem to you to be hysterical. I also notice you did not answer a question asked in the last post.

The question was do you agree that other and older civilizations had knowledge(amongst other things) of the passage of the sun? You claim Islam was the first to make this basic observation. I gave you two well-known examples, New Grange and Stonehenge in Europe.

You have not admitted you were incorrect.

I also pointed out the Muslims seem incapable of admitting when they get it wrong. Your silence tends to prove this.

"you claim that muslims have a problem with what has been revealed before quran and this shows your ignorance about the matter yet again."
OK, well then tell us whether Muslims claim the Bible and Torah, Rig veda and Bhagavad Gita are corrupted.
If I am ignorant on this matter and Muslms do not claim they are corrupted - then I stand corrected. But the corrolary of that is the Islam is not 'supreme'. So I expect you to come up with an explanation which somehow tries to say theses scriptures are both corrupted and not corrupted.

" muslims believe in the revelation of previous books. the ones we know of are the torah to moses, the injeel to christ, and the zabur to david. and islam encapsulates and works on the underlying aspect of all these messages : the oneness of GOD almighty. tht is the message from time to time. we just dont have problem with it, we actually celebrate it. "
as do all other religions - so what's new?

".....unlike the people under the invisible yoke of secularism, where they deride the different faiths by not knowing about their true prupose."

Don't you mean atheism here? Secularism is defined as ' the assertion that governmental practices or institutions should exist separately from religion or religious beliefs' . This is an eminently sensible approach to governing societies. The alternatives are the ridiculous and barbaric Sharia law - and the fanaticism found in such countries as Iran - where currently 'moral police' drive around haranguing people who have western haircuts or wear dresses they consider too short.

And secularism is quite appropriate for attempts by the West to accommodate the concept of so-called 'multiculturalism'. In fact Islam has benefitted from 'secularism' Imagine if England or the US was ruled by the Church of England or the Southern Baptists. Do you think there would be as many mosques as these countries so graciously allow there now? Unlike the totally intolerant and hypocrical Sharia-controlled Saudis - not allowing churches in their country.

Using that example - I can paraphrase the last sentence of yours as :
"........unlike the people under the invisible yoke of Sharia, where they deride the different faiths by not knowing about their true prupose..."

"....ALLAH clearly mentions in quran that there isnt a single nation that did not receive guidance of monothism from HIM. ALLAH also says that HE completed the religion in islam with the quran. and the great prophet is the final prophet of all prophets...."

What you mean to say is that ' it is mentioned in the Koran .... that there isnt a single nation that did not receive guidance of monothism from HIM. The Koran that HE completed the religion in islam with the quran. and the great prophet is the final prophet of all prophets...."

But as the Koran was written by human beings - it is no proof of anything.

Quite clearly only Islamists would say that 'completed the religion in islam with the quran. and the great prophet is the final prophet of all prophets...' - nobody else does or would.

"...no imams tell us this. "

your imams do tell us though that:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52630

and there's any number of ludicrous statements made by these people who pretend to know what 'Allah' wants.

"you probably have a christian or hindu complex where things are run by the priests."

more of your unfounded suppostion.

"islam is from ALLAH. so we hear and obey. we get it from the quran. "

Rather than an internal realisation of truth? OK, that does explain a lot of your behaviour.

"....islam is hardly in a time warp. "

But it is. Muslims think it is perfect and supreme so they will never see truth when it does arrive. It does not progress or change to fit new and deeper understandings.

"..... thats the point of religion. if god cannot be centered in it, then that religion is dead and lost."

That is pretty much an obvious point and does not need to be offered as an explanation

"which brings into doubt the belief system which you are influenced by. "

Which is what? And why does it (to you) bring it into doubt?

"....from your talks of changing trends and secular ideals it can be deduced that your faith has no genuinity. "

All I have done is transcribe some of the tenets of the Bahai's. You interpreted then as secular ideals. YOu still have not pointed out which of their tenets you do not like.

"what good is a faith if its messages are subject to peoples whims. reigion seeks to program man according to a set of rules from GOD. "

A bit of a Freudian slip there from you - and o reveals a lot. While Islam might seek to program man true religion guides man to the real goal - which is gnosis.

"...not the other way round. if you cannot undertsand thjis, your very effort to send posts to me is useless. i suggest you spare yourself the trouble."

that's a not so subtle way of saying you won't admit you were wrong on many previous points?

"i realized things. youre the one spinning aimlessly in the dark. you dont even know what religion seeks to do"

You've just said it is to program people. Your religion does that. We have such wonderful results as Western trained Muslim medical doctors, breaking their Hippocratic oaths - driving explosive laden cars into crowded airport foyers in Scotland. The number of examples of such things are extremely common.

True religion seeks to still the mind calm the emotions and connect consciousness to its Source.

Question:

"O SERVANT, where dost thou seek Me?
Lo! I am beside thee.
I am neither in temple nor in mosque: I am neither in Kaaba nor in Kailash:
Neither am I in rites and ceremonies, nor in Yoga and renunciation.
If thou art a true seeker, thou shalt at once see Me: thou shalt meet Me in a moment of time.
Kabîr says, "O Sadhu! God is the breath of all breath."

Would you agree with this?

What does the last line mean?

"...and here you are talking like an expert on them. "

I am not the one making all the baseless and hyperbolic claims.

some may call this a brave effort, but it does teeter on the brink of total embarasment."

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