bayezid: More about Allah's curses and abuses Part II

Submitted by Plato (India), Jan 9, 2009 at 03:55

bayezid, you wrote:

>>there are many atheists that became muslims.<<

And many Muslims became and are becoming atheists.

>>so what does this show? it shows you dont know your destiny yet. <<

You are just stating the obvious. No one knows his/her own destiny. And as an unbeliever I know that neither does the phantom of the universe Allah.

>>people that seemed hellbound turned to ALLAH suddenly and became the best of the believers.<<

People who seemed paradise-bound suddenly turned against Allah and became the worst of unbelievers too. You have been listening to too much of what the mullas have been telling you. Taha Mohammed, Taslima Nasreen, Salman Rushdie, Ayaan Hirsi, were all born into good Muslim families and now they are good non-Muslims.

>> the great companions of the prophet wer once the worst disbelievers before they came to islam. who could have known that these people were going to be so good one day?<<

What good did they do after turning Muslim? Abu Bakr went on the ridda wars to kill and re-convert apostates from Islam. Khalid bin Walid continued with his bloodthirsty ways. Othman was willing to slice of people's heads at the drop a camel rope. Ali went to war with his father-in-law's wife and killed unbelievers. Omar and Othman were hated so much by other Muslims that they were murdered. So was Ali.

>>so why do you keep saying you are unbeliever ??? do you wilfully choose to be unbeliever?<<

You told me that Allah willfully made me into an unbeliever. Why then do you ask such questions when the answer is clear.

>>do you know how ALLAH programmed you? ALLAH only mentions this general information for us. but the details only HE knows.<<

I don't believe anyone has programmed me. But you keep insisting that Allah has programmed me. You told me: "one can only wonder what is keeping you from improving your condition. whatever does happen and does not, all is by HIS will"

The really important detail according to Islam, as you keep telling me, is that Allah has programmed me, to what end is not my or your concern.

>>i appreciate you are thinking about this. one more thing, unbelievers really dont think about this. but you are thinking. so please, think real hard and real deep.<<

I appreciate your appreciation. But I know unbelievers do think a lot about this. Just read the posts on Danielpipes for evidence.

>>please understand that in no way am i attacking you now but i am trying to be a good slave to ALLAH myself.<<

I know you are not attacking me but rather doing dawa as a good slave of Allah must.

>>Does this mean that I have a choice in my belief? Now read this aya: 010.099
YUSUFALI: If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe!

How in Allah's name can I hearken to His words if He has created me to not hearken to His words? Only Islamic logic will rescue you here."

>>like i said, ALLAH is talking about a level we can only imagine and never understand.<<

Allah cannot be that dumb. Why should He talk to us about something we can never understand.

>> this is the level of setting destinies. you dont know your destiny .<<

This is some gobbledygook you have derived from your previous statement. I don't know my destiny, but Allah knows it. Why then does He go to all that trouble of putting down me on earth instead putting in me in my rightful place in heaven or hell?

>>this is what ALLAH says. there is nothing to worry about if you are a conscious being. and the funny thing is, unbelievers and disbelievers are hardly conscious of it. they dont want to know. they dont care.<<

This really tickled my funny bone. You say there is nothing to worry about if I am a conscious being. Then you tell me that both believers and unbelievers are just barely conscious. That is not only worrying but also very, very funny because you said in the beginning that there is nothing to worry about if we are conscious. Why did not Allah not make us fully conscious and free us of our worries?

>>so this is a question u need to ask urself. do you think like them? or not. your choice.<<

Not my choice at all, bayezid. It never is. It is always Allah's choice. You keep forgetting.

>>ALLAH also tells us to ask HIM for help. so ask god for help if u respct yourself an want good for yourself. can you not do that? are you unable to do that?<<

If Allah wants us to ask Him for His help why does He say people like me are beyond help. And what Allah says has to be true:

007.186 YUSUFALI: To such as Allah rejects from His guidance, there can be no guide: He will leave them in their trespasses, wandering in distraction.

010.096 YUSUFALI: Those against whom the word of thy Lord hath been verified would not believe-

006.110 YUSUFALI: We (too) shall turn to (confusion) their hearts and their eyes, even as they refused to believe in this in the first instance: We shall leave them in their trespasses, to wander in distraction

Straight from the horses mouth. Allah does not ask unbelievers to beg for His help. I did not believe in the first instance so I am condemned to wander in distraction.

>> you dont need money or anything for it, just talk to god. dont follow any damn religion for the moment. just talk to god and ask him for guidance. and please be respectful of god.<<

You read what Allah says in the three verses I have quoted above. He has turned my heart to confusion (at least that is what Allah thinks) and He has rejected me from His guidance. The word of thy Lord has been verified against me.

>>How in Allah's name can I ‘do that' if He has created me not to do it??

how do you know for sure HE created you not to believe ????????? im ripping the hair out of my own head now !!!<<

Lucky you, you have hairs to rip out. I want to do the same when I read your posts but being bald I have to make do with scratching my head. And it is getting raw and skinless with all the scratching you make me do.

>>does GOD send you letters ? does he telephone you or send you emails telling you HE hates you?<<

Allah seems to have given me a pretty good life. I thank Allah for it. Perhaps He likes me and that is why He has not sent me any hate mail or calls. But I notice that He does seem to hate His believers. They are killing each other off in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Darfur and they are being killed by unbelievers in Iraq, Palestine, Chechnya ….Believers also seem to live in much more poverty and misery than the unbelievers. Allah need not tell His believers via infidel inventions like phones and the internet He hates them. He makes it quite clear where His heart is. Allah is the greatest of deceivers, according to His own confession. Get a clue, bayezid.

>>why are u so adamant on thinking that you are damned .<<

When did I ever say any such thing? You are the one who told me that I am an unbeliever because Allah willed it so. According to your belief I am damned in the after life for my unbelief. I believe only in damnation in this life.

>> i could be damned but i dont know it. so what i act like a muslim. only ALLAH knows that. sigh .....<<

Nice to hear from you that believers cannot believe all the promises that Allah makes. This is the point I have been trying to make all along. Allah is THE Great Deceiver. Has the TRUTH dawned on you at last?

>> No I am not doing what it takes to please Allah because He created me to make Him hopping mad or sigh with sadness at what He made me do."

>>do you know abu bakar siddiq? ill tell you. he was the propehts best friend.<<

Abu Bakr sure turned out to be Muhammad's best friend. But he was a bad father to his little daughter. You know why, don't you? What is better, being a good friend or a good father?

>>but do you know what he was before he accepted islam? he buried his own daughter alive in the ground as per the tradition of pagan arabia !!!<<

Oh! I did not know this little detail. So he was a pretty bad father to begin with. No wonder he hesitated only just a wee bit before giving up Aisha to the tender mercy of the prophet.

>>as he was doing it his daughter did not know it and rubbed the earth from her fathers face as he was digging a hole. accunts say that he shed a tear as he saw that.<<

I get the funny feeling that the last bit has been concocted by the story teller to add some humanity to Abu Bakr's character. What tears can a man who is about to bury his daughter alive have? These crocodile tears were, I bet, put in there by the story teller.

Does anyone know whether he shed any tears when the 9-year-old Aisha was led into the Prophets bedroom?

>>so what would you call him ? good or bad? heaven bound or hell bound?<<

He would definitely be hell bound if I were in Allah's place. I would not forgive him for twice betraying his daughters. As Allah I would not accept his belief in exchange for forgiveness. I would consider his sin worse than shirk.

>> he accepted islam and is one of the greatest muslims of the past. of course he repented to ALLAH and asked HIM for forgiveness for the things he did in the past.and ALLAH forgave HIM.<<

Now you can see what is wrong with Allah. All he cares about is that people believe Him. He then forgives the worst of crimes, like he forgave the unforgivable crimes of Abu Bakr.

>>the prophet assured him he was goingto paradise.<<

So the prophet does know Allah's mind. Is he the alter ego of Allah for him to know for sure that Abu Bakr is bound for paradise (You know Allah keeps saying He will do as He pleaseth). Many of us suspected all along that Allah is just an alias for Muhammad.

>> there are other examples like this.<<

Please! I unreservedly believe you. Do not inflict any stories of such Muslim greats on me. One example of this kind is all I can stomach.

>>look, HE is waiting to forgive us all. we have to get ourself to ask for forgiveness, thats it. and we are all sinners.<<

He should know that He has a long wait coming. He wills us not to ask for forgiveness. You know that's it. How can we help not being sinners?

>> and yes, so am i. i have done bad things too and i pray that ALLAH forgives me.<<

You can always hope that you will not be a victim of his pranks. He forgives whom He pleaseth, you could be one of those despite your sins.

>>You have told me in no uncertain terms that Allah has denied me the capability to ask for His guidance. How do I go against what He has willed?"

i was using this as a case study to explain something to you. and i was also replying to your arrogant ways of taking about ALLAH. thats why i told you that.<<

I hope you have found me to be a good case study. Maybe you have learned something from what I have said. But I have no clue to what you are talking about.

>>but question is : are you truly incapable or capable..... of asking ALLAH for help.<<

Why do you bother yourself with such questions. Only Allah the all-knower knows.

>>who cares what i think or say to you, ALLAH knows best. ask yourself this quetion.<<

You cared that is why you have taken the trouble to debate with me here. The answer to the question whether I am capable of incapable of asking Allah for help is self-evident from your statement ‘ALLAH knows best.

>>just because i tell u ur this dosent make u that. you shoud kno abt urself mre than another person. and let us remember, ALLAH knows us personally and HE knows us all the best.

Since Allah knows best He knows what I am and what you are, this or that. Great piece of Islamic wisdom.

>>You keep forgetting that Allah has made me so stupid that I do not know that I cannot ask such silly things as asking for proof of Allah's existence. Since I am so stupid it would be child's play for you to demonstrate Allah's existence. Even children younger than my mental age know that to accept anything without proof, even Allah's existence, is to be a fool of the highest order."

look i truly am sorry if i misjudged you.<<

Hey, bayezid, don't be sorry. You judged according to the Koran. Remember Sa'ad Mu'ad judging the Banu Quraiza according to their book and sending them to Allah? If he can be praised for judging according to a corrupt book then you certainly cannot be faulted for using the Koran as a guide to condemn me as an unbeliever.

>> i was only explaining to you why you shudnt be so arrognt to ALLAH. but look how do you know HE does not love you more than HE loves me, a muslim? only HE knows those things.<<

Great to see that you are finally getting the message of the Koran. Let me repeat what it says. I have already quoted 3:26. The Koran reemphasises it in this verse: 002.284 YUSUFALI: To Allah belongeth all that is in the heavens and on earth. Whether ye show what is in your minds or conceal it, Allah Calleth you to account for it. He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and punisheth whom He pleaseth, for Allah hath power over all things.

I feel so sorry for you now, bayezid. After all those hours and hours of singing Allah's praises, prayers, fasting, animal sacrifices and slavish groveling you cannot be sure that you will see any of the seven doors of heaven. Rest assured, if I end up in heaven I will not snigger at you. Infidels don't enjoy the suffering of others like Allah does.

>>so stop telling to yourself that you are damned and cursed. and just ask ALLAH, in your own way to guide u always.<<

I never tell myself that I am damned and cursed. I am blessed to be born normal with a tolerably livable life unlike the millions Allah has condemned to live out their lives in misery and pain.

>>i am writing it down to you now. you can hold this against me if you think i am lying. just ask ALLAH tto keep guiding you nd do it sincerely ok. understand the situation. and ull see, that god helps u and shows u things u never thot ud see.

100 percent true.<<

This is quite a good piece for doing dawa. I see hundreds of Muslims in my neighbourhood, some in miserable life situations, beg and plead with Allah at home and in mosques for some relief. And I see embezzlers, alcohol guzzlers, cruel people without an iota of sympathy for their fellow men leading comfortable lives and going to their graves without having suffered anything more than a flu or a headache. I feel sorry for those poor Muslims living on the false hope that they will be compensated in the after life for what they suffered here.

>> 2:159. Those who conceal the clear (Signs) We have sent down, and the Guidance, after We have made it clear for the people in the Book,-on them shall be Allah.s curse, and the curse of those entitled to curse,-

ok this is very reasonable, isnt it?<<

I would think Allah is being very unreasonable. How can the CLEAR signs of Allah be hidden? Did He not know beforehand that they would be hidden? Where would the people of the book hide it? If the people of the book, among them the chosen of Allah, the jews, could hide Allah's signs why did he choose them to be His chosen ones? This was a very bad error on the part of the all-knowing Allah.

>>to disbelieve is one thing, but to prevent others from believing is also crime. this is what ALLAH talks about here<<

In kaffir countries nobody prevents anyone from believing almost anything one wants. This is not true of Muslim countries. If you are a Muslim you cannot change your faith without paying a heavy price. It is Allah's followers who prevent people from following their conscience. I am sure that is not what it is talking about.

>> we see many people fitting this profile on daniel pipes. for what reason do thy conceal the trtuh? it can only mean these people are evil who do not want good. so else deserves curses than these? i ask you.<<

The TRUTH you are talking about is Allah's right to be worshipped alone without associates. Does worshipping an idol make a person evil? The very thought of designating unbelievers in Allah as evil is itself evil. That is the evil that wrought havoc in Mumbai. These believers in Allah wanted death, not good. Have you cursed them for the evil they did, bayezid? I ask you.

>> 2:160. Except those who repent and make amends and openly declare (the Truth): To them I turn; for I am Oft-returning, Most Merciful.

but ALLAH does forgive anyone and everyone that repents. does not mean what he or shes done. so everyone is given a choice. why should you blame god if you wilfully mke th wrong decisions after you know the truth?<<

It is not I who makes wrong decisions willfully. It is Allah who does that as He has made clear in so many verses and you have also noticed this truth. But you keep ‘hiding this clear truth' by going on insisting that I am to blame for being a kafar.

Allah has hidden the truth from me so that He has an excuse to fill hell ‘with jinns and men altogether'. 011.119 YUSUFALI: Except those on whom thy Lord hath bestowed His Mercy: and for this did He create them: and the Word of thy Lord shall be fulfilled: "I will fill Hell with jinns and men all together."

Regards

Plato

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