Nozzi: Koran 2:216, 9:29, 9:38 and 9:111 stir up Muslims to go on jihad

Submitted by Plato (India), Apr 15, 2009 at 21:22

Nozzi, you write:

>>Plato, from the verses you extract from the Holy Quran, no doubt you have come to the conclusion to stir up the spirits of Muslims to fight even though non-Muslims do not start their fight. Your interpretation is certainly absurd since we, moderate Muslims, in Singapore are taught to be precautious to our interpretation.<<

How absurd are these verses stirring up Muslims to go for the and kill infidels:

002.216 YUSUFALI: Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.

009.038 YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter.

>>We have to read through the paragaraphs around these verses in order to come to the conclusion of what the Holy Quran means.<<

Read through the paragraphs I have given and write about what the Koran really means by them.

>>We do not behave like you'll that just find the word, fight, immediately go and fight. This is wrong and misleading.<<

Allah prescribes fighting for Muslims (2:216) and asks you to prefer the life of the hereafter (9:38) and in 9:111 He promises you eternal pleasures if you reach the hereafter.Can you point out anything wrong and misleading in what Allah is telling you? Remember the Koran is a clear book easy to understand:

054.040 YUSUFALI: And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?

>>You have quoted Quran 4:77 well. However, please meditate a verse, Quran 4:75 prior to this verse:

Quran 4:75, "...fight in the cause of Allah and of those who...ill-treated (and oppressed)...Our Lord! Rescue us from this one, whose people are oppressors". The phrase, those who...ill-treated (and oppressed) in Quran 4:75 certainly refers to those non-Muslims that start to create trouble among our Muslim fellows so much so we are being ill-treated and oppressed. These people are called by Allah as Quran 4:75, "...oppressors". Thus, from Quran 4:75 above, it could come to the conclusion that Allah wants us to fight only when non-Muslims ill-treat and oppress us. <<

To get an even better picture of what Allah is conveying you go back even further.

004.066 - 79 If We had ordered them to sacrifice their lives or to leave their homes, very few of them would have done it: But if they had done what they were (actually) told, it would have been best for them, and would have gone farthest to strengthen their (faith);

Allah (alias Muhammad) wants people to sacrifice their lives and those who obeyed would have increased their faith.

004.067 And We should then have given them from our presence a great reward;

And obeying the Prophet even to the extent of risking their lives would they would get a great reward (a bribe being dangled to risk their lives)

004.068 : And We should have shown them the Straight Way.

Risking their lives would lead them to the straight path.

004.069 : All who obey Allah and the messenger are in the company of those on whom is the Grace of Allah,- of the prophets (who teach), the sincere (lovers of Truth), the witnesses (who testify), and the Righteous (who do good): Ah! what a beautiful fellowship!

What a beautiful carrot! For obeying the messenger they will receive the grace of Allah.

004.070 : Such is the bounty from Allah: And sufficient is it that Allah knoweth all.

Allah emphasizes His bountiful nature.

004.071 : O ye who believe! Take your precautions, and either go forth in parties or go forth all together.

After softening up the listeners with visions of Allah's bounty and grace for obeying Muhammad instructions on how to set forth for war now given.

004.072 : There are certainly among you men who would tarry behind: If a misfortune befalls you, they say: "Allah did favour us in that we were not present among them."
004.073 : But if good fortune comes to you from Allah, they would be sure to say - as if there had never been Ties of affection between you and them - "Oh! I wish I had been with them; a fine thing should I then have made of it!"

Those who are inclined to stay behind are now made fun of.

004.074 : Let those fight in the cause of Allah Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah,- whether he is slain or gets victory - Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value).

Those who fight Allah's enemies (i.e. Muhammads' enemies) are told to sell the life of this world for the hereafter. These fighters are assured a great reward whether they are killed or escape with their lives.

004.075 : And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!"

The listeners (the Mohajirs?) are being egged on to fight by telling them that the men women and children of Mecca were crying for their help to free them from the oppression of the Meccans (this so-called oppression is a false claim as you will realize if you read the prophet's biography). The underlined line has the people petition Allah to send them a rescuer (read Muhammad).

004.076 : Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan.

The opponents are called friends of Satan and his cunning is called feeble as some more incentive to take on Muhammad's enemies. We see the same tactics at present when nations at war paint the other side as vicious and barbarous (Khomeini's Great Satan).

004.077: Hast thou not turned Thy vision to those who were told to hold back their hands (from fight) but establish regular prayers and spend in regular charity? When (at length) the order for fighting was issued to them, behold! a section of them feared men as - or even more than - they should have feared Allah: They said: "Our Lord! Why hast Thou ordered us to fight? Wouldst Thou not Grant us respite to our (natural) term, near (enough)?" Say: "Short is the enjoyment of this world: the Hereafter is the best for those who do right: Never will ye be dealt with unjustly in the very least!

Now here is Allah telling the prophet that initially the Muslims were told not to fight. Then when the order to fight was issued (this is an admission by Allah that He is the one who initiated bloodshed in His cause) some Muslims hesitated and wanted to know why they could not live out their lives peacefully in Madina (the Muslims were not under any threat in Madina. In fact it was the Muslims who constantly threatened the Meccans's livelihood by attacking their trade).

The ruthless Allah tells Muhammad to tell them enjoyment of this world is short and they should prefer death. As an added incentive they are told they will get their just reward.

004.078 : "Wherever ye are, death will find you out, even if ye are in towers built up strong and high!" If some good befalls them, they say, "This is from Allah"; but if evil, they say, "This is from thee" (O Prophet). Say: "All things are from Allah." But what hath come to these people, that they fail to understand a single fact?

Now Allah is telling them that even if they stayed back in their fortress death will find them when their time is up i.e. if they die in battle it will only be because their time was up. This verse also says that ALL THINGS ARE FROM ALLAH, INCLUDING EVIL.

004.079 YUSUFALI: Whatever good, (O man!) happens to thee, is from Allah; but whatever evil happens to thee, is from thy (own) soul. and We have sent thee as a messenger to (instruct) mankind. And enough is Allah for a witness.

The poor believers are told that if any evil befalls them (i.e get killed) it is from their own soul. Allah has clean forgotten that in the previous verse He had claimed that He also is responsible for evil.

Nozzi, as you can see if you read verses in context they turn out to be worse than if they were left alone! If you do not believe my tafsir consult your Islamic scholar and let me know what he has to say about my interpreatation.

>>The verse does not support Muslim extremists that they fight with non-Muslims even though non-Muslims do not begin their fights with them.<<

What these verses tell the Muslims is that when they have gathered enough power then go out and do jihad in the cause of Allah

>>You have brought out the verse in Quran 8:69. However, you did not read through Quran 8:71, "(that mentions that) But if they have treacherous designs against thee, (O Messengers), they have already been in treason against Allah". The word, they, in Quran 8:71 certainly refers to non-Muslims. The phrase, if they have treacherous designs against thee, in Quran 8:71 implies that the non-Muslims trigger off their fight against Muslims. As these non-Muslims have triggerred off their fight against Muslims, they indeed Quran 8:71, "have already been in treason against Allah". As they are in treason against Allah, we, Muslims, will then fight. Again, as the phrase, they have treacherous designs against thee, is mentioned in Quran 8:71, it implies that non-Muslims have started their fights first, so we have to defend. However, Muslim extremists abuse the Holy Quran that they fighrt even at the time when non-Muslims do not stir up their fights with them.<<

I must thank you for giving me another opportunity to do another tafsir. Let us take this surah from before 8:69 and see what we can come up with:

008.067 : It is not fitting for a prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he hath thoroughly subdued the land. Ye look for the temporal goods of this world; but Allah looketh to the Hereafter: And Allah is Exalted in might, Wise.

In this verse the exalted Allah is telling the prophet that he should have slaughtered the prisoners of war he took at Badr (Yusufali is hiding the fact this fact by talking of prisoners of war. Other translations tell you Allah wanted them massacred)
008.068 : Had it not been for a previous ordainment from Allah, a severe penalty would have reached you for the (ransom) that ye took.

Allah is reprimanding the prophet but lets him off the hook by referring to a previous order.
008.069 : But (now) enjoy what ye took in war, lawful and good: but fear Allah: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Now Allah shows His forgiving and merciful nature by allowing the Muslims to enjoy the booty they took at Badr. This is the nauseating Allah you believe in Nozzi. He wants prisoners of war slaughtered mercilessly and the Muslims to enjoy the booty they took from off the dead bodies and the prisoners ransomed.

008.070 : O Prophet! say to those who are captives in your hands: "If Allah findeth any good in your hearts, He will give you something better than what has been taken from you, and He will forgive you: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."

Some consolation this for the prisoners!

008.071 : But if they have treacherous designs against thee, (O Messenger!), they have already been in treason against Allah, and so hath He given (thee) power over them. And Allah so He Who hath (full) knowledge and wisdom.

And this is what you have to say about 8:71 which you think I missed out. Actually this makes things worse.

However, you did not read through Quran 8:71, "(that mentions that) But if they have treacherous designs against thee, (O Messengers), they have already been in treason against Allah". The word, they, in Quran 8:71 certainly refers to non-Muslims. The phrase, if they have treacherous designs against thee, in Quran 8:71 implies that the non-Muslims trigger off their fight against Muslims. As these non-Muslims have triggerred off their fight against Muslims, they indeed Quran 8:71, "have already been in treason against Allah". As they are in treason against Allah, we, Muslims, will then fight. Again, as the phrase, they have treacherous designs against thee, is mentioned in Quran 8:71, it implies that non-Muslims have started their fights first, so we have to defend.

The first underlined sentence says IF THEY HAVE TREACHEROUS DESIGNS AGAINST THEE. This itself is enough to be accused of treason against Allah! It does not say if they act treacherously against you. How can you know someone has treacherous designs unless there is some action. This is Allah allowing Mohammed to attack preemptively even if there is no sign of hostility.

From this you conveniently jump to the conclusion that it is the non-Muslims who trigger fights against Muslims. Then you again simply assume 'THESE NON-MUSLIMS HAVE TRIGGERED THEIR FIGHT AGAINST MUSLIMS'. Think honestly over what I have underlined and said.

>>Muslim extremists have put Allah's name in the shame.<<

No, Nozzi, you are trying to white wash Allah's merciless nature as I showed from the tafsir of the verses above. The Muslims you accuse of being extremists are just being good, true and pure Muslims.

>>Plato, you have wrongly accused me, being a moderate Muslim in Singapore since we hold firmly our interpretation is true and we don't fight since non-Mulsims do not fight against us.<<

From your posts I understand that as a Muslim you are very distressed at what your brother Muslims are doing. That is wonderful. But it is time you woke up to the fact if you are a true Muslim you cannot be a moderate in the sense that the non-Muslims understand it.

Regards

Plato

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