Nozzi: First learn the context of important Koranic verses. And 9:30 reveals that the Koran also contains Muhammad's words

Submitted by Plato (India), May 18, 2009 at 06:42

Nozzi, you wrote:

>>Quran 9:28 calls the idolaters to be unclean and that is why we, moderate muslims prevent them to the entry of the sacred mosque and that is undeniable. Allah will assist us at the time when we are in poverty.<<

Nozzi, you don't seem to know even the basics of the context of Koranic 'revelations'. 9:28 says: …, and if you (fear) poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace…

Pagan Arabs came on pilgrimage to Mecca from far and near. Like any other religious centre this was a good source of income to the locals (Meccans) and the livelihood of many in Mecca depended on the arrival of pilgrims. This verse is telling the ones who will be affected that Allah will enrich them out of His grace (read from the booty Muslims will acquire from raiding the pagans and Jews).

This is what the great Islamic scholar Ibn Kathir says about this verse: "As for His saying: 'And if ye fear poverty…..', it refers to their saying, according to Ibn Ishaq: "There will be no markets (of transactions) to be held in our town, and thus our traffic will perish, and the earnings, we used to get will fade out." On that occasion Allah Almigty revealed: "And if ye fear poverty,...His bounty." This suggests that Allah almighty granted them earnins from what they would take from the people of the Scriptures as tax or Jiziya, in substitution for whatever earnings they lost with the pagans, and this is out His full Wisdom and Justice.'

>>Quran 9:29 is mentioned for numerous times to stir up muslims for battle. However, read carefully Quran 9:29 since it does not mention that Allah has delegated us on earth to fight. The sentence could imply that Allah is the one to execute judgment upon non-muslims or Allah demands all non-muslims to fight. For instance, if Allah is the one that should execute judgment upon non-muslims in Quran 9:29, we, muslims, execute judgment for Allah indeed is abusing the authority of Allah since Allah has not delegated authority for us to fight while we are on earth.<<

The verse ends with "…until they pay the tax in acknowledgement of superiorty and they are in a state of subjection."

Has Allah delegated authority to collect jiziya and humiliate the people of the Book? Or is it meant for Allah to execute on Judgment Day? What will Allah do with all that Jiziya He collects and does He need it? Will the Jews and Christians be carrying enough money to satisfy Allah? LOL

>>Recalling the history of Muhammad, he even sought the revelation from Allah whether he should fight back with Meccans when Meccans started their persecutions after year 610.<<

Quote from your favourite book of Islamic history, the Cambridge History written by unclean infidels, showing the Meccans persecution started from 610.

>>Thus, using Quran 9:29 to direct muslims to fight is certainly abusing the authority of Allah in which Allah did not authoorize us to fight then.<<

If He did not authorize Muslims to fight then how can you say 'abusing the authority Allah'? You are not making any sense. You claim that authority to fight has been given fight so there is no question of abusing anything.

>> For instance, if Quran 9:29 is meant for the battle from Allah, this should occur at the time of the Last Judgment Day in which all non-muslims, include you, Plato, cannot be escaped from the execution of judgment from Allah). Read careffully the following extract:<<

The verse ends with authority to collect jiziya. By your logic this would mean that you or Allah will have to collect this jiziya on Judgment Day!

>>Quran 9:29, "(Who fight? Allah himself or his people? What if his instruction is from Allah, the encourage to fight has caused us to abuse the authority of Allah. Who is ti one then to) Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibited what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truthout of those who have been given the Book,… <<

You ask who is one to fight. The verse is very clear when it says that you have to fight those who do not believe in Allah from among those who have been given the Book.

>>…until they pay the tax in acknowledgement of pay superiority and they are in a state of subjection." <<

The next part is also very clear. You, the Muslims, have to collect a tax from them to show who is superior and also to fulfil the promise made by Allah about compensating Muslims for the lost revenue from banning pagans from the Kaba.

>>From the analysis of Quran 9;29, we, moderate muslims, would not fight since we must respect Allah if Allah's decision is Allah wants to be the one to execute judgment and that should be on the Last Judgment Day instead of now.<<

Once again Nozzi, what are you going to do with the Jizia collected from the people of the Book on Judgment Day? Pay for your wine and buy jewelry for the women who will entertain you in paradise?

>>Our responsibility is to reach out to non-muslims that they would repent to be saved from the last judgment day.<<

Why do you want to do that. You will miss out on the jiziya you can collect on Judgment Day!

>>Quran 9:30, "And the Jews say Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say, 'The Messiah is the son of Allah: these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disliked before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away." The phrase, may Allah destroy them, in Quran 9:30 gives us the very hint to all muslims that Quran 9:29-30 should be meant for the execution of judgment of Allah instead of by muslim people.<<

'May Allah destroy them'?? The cat is out of the bag! This cannot be Allah speaking. It is Muhammad calling upon Allah to destroy them. Would Allah say 'may'. All He has to say is 'you are destroyed' and that is that. So the phrase 'may Allah destroy them' actually gives us the very broad hint that the Koran (at this verse) is the work of Muhammad.

.>> As Quran 9:29 and 9:30 are meant for the execution of judgment from Allah upon non-muslims, there should not be any reason for we, muslims, to abuse these verses to commence our wars with non-muslims while we are on earth.<<

Why then did Muslims, including the rightly guided Caliphs, go about fighting and conquering the rest of the world. Were the rightly guided ones also extremist Muslims or were they just abusing Allah's authority like today's Muslims?

>>What right do you, Plato, have to command muslims to fight when Allah mentions in Quran 9;29-30 that he should be the one to execute judgment upon non-muslims. You have to bow down before Allah to respect his decision when he says that he wants to execute judgment upon non-muslims.<<

Read this verse:

009.005 YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Is Allah the to execute this order or the Muslims? Nozzi, stop this silly talk of Allah is not asking Muslims not to fight on earth

>>Plato, please don't encourage muslims to abuse the authority of Allah when Allah mentions that he should be the one to execute judgment upon non-muslims. <<

You seem to have taken seriously my claim to be Halla's apostle! Have you forgotten, unlike Allah, Halla dislikes any kind of fighting, even if it is on his behalf?

Regard

Plato

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