Nozzi: You are a good example of the scrambling of Muslim brains by madrassas.

Submitted by Plato (India), May 8, 2009 at 06:04

Nozzi, your reply is titiled: MUHAMMAD TOLD THE TRUTH FROM ALLAH, WHY SHOULD MECCANS PROTESTED AGAINST HIM?

How do you know Muhammad told the truth from Allah? How can you be sure it was not Hubal or Ra the Egyptian sun god? I told you I have the truth from Halla that Muslims worship the false god Allah. Do you believe me? Should Muslims protest against me?

Nozzi, from some of your responses, I suspect as I have often suspected about some posters on this board, that you are really a non-Muslim trying to show Muslims to be unthinking zombies. Either that, or you are the sad result of the most powerful system of indoctrination ever devised by man. I keep replying to you because despite the iron curtain Islamic training draws over Muslim minds simple logic is capable of penetrating it (the hope that keeps me going!).

Here is an interesting excerpt from a Pakistani newspaper about a higher level of indoctrination than you underwent to create suicide bombers. (After reading this post of yours I think you would have been a good candidate for the Taliban):

"….The indoctrination process at the camp followed an intense curriculum comprising Quranic studies interspersed with motivational talks by senior students and fighters and combined with physical exercise and combat training in assault with live weapons, more religious, including Quranic, teaching, daily duties, and then more Quranic studies, motivational talks and prayers before resting. The content of the motivational talks and religious study focused primarily on anti-material, anti-western and anti-worldly sentiments as well as the injustices inflicted on the Muslim people in the past and present.

Much of this was done through the application of Quranic verses and the teachings of the Prophet (PBUH) pertaining to the paramount reward, the benefits of paradise and the absolute rejection of a worldly life. In addition, there was much focus on the dire consequences (such as a constant stream of molten lead being poured on the head of a citizen of hell) for not submitting to the extremists' interpretation of Islam and jihad and of being a hypocrite or non-believer. In other words, according to their interpretation, the vast majority of Pakistanis and the rest of the world were damned anyway, so there was nothing wrong in taking out many of them. It was an exhausting process of intense indoctrination with the strategic aim of creating ranks of highly brainwashed students (Talibs) through what is called in-group consolidation.

The ones selected for higher sacrificial duties after this indoctrination had to go through intensified one-on-one fine-tuning to harden the students towards anything perceived as worldly. This was done to the extent of getting the students to reject any link with the world or anybody in it, including their parents, and to thus achieve in them a constant state of an induced trance."

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/provinces/16-the-suicide-dream-hs-05

It is easy to see that you have gone through a milder form of indoctrination which instead of inducing you to commit physical hara-kiri has nevertheless succeeded in washing out all the normal human rational capabilities. You accept what you are told without asking for evidence. You condone all the cruel acts a man committed centuries ago as you have been told they were divinely ordained. Once you accept that cruelties were divinely ordered you close your mind to any other explanations.

>>I refer to your reply about the Meccans that protested against Prophet Muhammad. However, Muhammad was doing the duties of Allah about idolatry in which Allah forbided.<< >> As Muhammad assisted Allah to preach the message to Meccans, why should Meccans protested against our religion, Muslims? The fault indeed is from the Meccans.<<

You have never answered how you came to know that Muhammad was entrusted with the duty of forbidding idolatry. I also claimed (my claim is first hand, unlike the information you have from a book, the Koran) in one of my posts that I have been entrusted by Halla to forbid worship of Allah. Will you reject my claim? And if you do, why?

>> As Muhammad assisted Allah to preach the message to Meccans, why should Meccans protested against our religion, Muslims? The fault indeed is from the Meccansn.<<

Nozzi, can you understand that you have blasphemed Allah by what you have said? You are saying the Allah you worship as the Most-Powerful needed the assistance of a human being to preach His message. The Koran also makes clear that Allah is needs helping hands in the form of angels as He is unable to handle the job of managing the Universe.

And why should not the Meccans protest? Will you Muslims not protest my claim that Halla detests the worship of Allah as I, Halla's prophet claim Allah is a false god. If you do protest, the fault indeed is with Muslims. Now point to any fault in my claim.

>>For instance, if Meccans did not protested against Muhammad, there wouldn't be violence from him.<<

For protesting against abuse and curses from the Prophet you justify his violence against the Meccans. You are revealing yourself to be as intolerant as the extremists you say you detest. If I came and preached to you Muslims that you are worshipping a false god called Allah will you only protest? What makes Muslims special that they have the right to curse and abuse non-Muslims. And protests from non-Muslims against being abused is seen as worthy of violent attacks on them to make them accept Muhammad's Islam. Are you really for real???

>> Let me give you example: Let's say, you go to somebody's house and comments against somebody's reason. If that person that you visit does not quarrel with you and beats you, you would not fight with him?<<

Let me now ask you: I come to your house uninvited and comment about your religion being false. Will you beat me up? What right do I have to come to your house and tell you Allah is a false god? Do you give me that right?

>>What if that person that you visit begins to fight with you when your intention is to share to them your religion so as to save him, would you still remain silence and let him start beating you. Surely! You will fight back.<<

If I visit your house and you start fighting with me when my intention was to share with you the true religion of Halla to save you from the false god Allah should I remain silent when you start beating me up?

Ask yourself Nozzi who is right in beginning the fight?

>>The same is applied to Meccans. Why should Meccans protested against Prophet Muhammad when his intention was to enable to be saved from the Last Judgment Day?<<

The same applies to Muslims. Why should Muslims protest against Prophet Plato when his intention was to save them on the Great Day?

>> Meccans were the first to start protesting against Muhammad and Muhammad had no other choice but to fight back.<<

Muslims are the first to start protesting against Plato and Plato has no other choice but to fight back. You see Nozzi, you have given me the right to commit violence against Muslims for merely protesting. THANKS!

>>Why should Meccans offended Muslims first and they should be condemned the same by Allah? Meccans gave no respect to the Prophet in which Allah is contented with his action for his preaching mission. Meccans have to blame themselves why should they protested against Muhammad and his followers, such a silly move.<<

Nozzi you are again showing off your lack of knowledge of your prophet's career. Please get it into your head that it was Muhammad who offended the Meccans for close to ten years by abusing their religion. I have given you chapter and verse from the original biographer of Muhammad to prove this point. It was the prophet who gave no respect to the Meccan religion. They had nothing to blame but themselves for their rejecting Muhammad.

>>Plato, if someone has a good wish that you would be saved in the Judgment Day, yet you give him a punch on his cheek. Is it a right move?<<

Nozzi, when will you understand that the Meccans did not punch your prophet for many years despite his rude and crude behaviour towards them. The wrong moves were almost always from the Muslims and Muhammad. Nozzi you have been so thoroughly brainwashed that this point simply does not seem to penetrate the iron curtain around your brain.

Instead, you should be grateful of his action in preaching to you since he wants to bring you choice in the future. You might not accept his opinion and it does not mean you can give him a punch or to protest against him.

The same to Meccans.

>>If Meccans didn't want to accept Muslim's teaching, they just walked off and needed not to protest against Muhammad and his followers. Why should Meccans despise our Prophet Muhammad then?<<

Nozzi, if I came and preached to you that Allah is a false god and also abuse and curse Him as Muhammad did to the sacred idols of the Meccans would you just walk off and turn a deaf ear to what I am saying? The Meccans did that for ten years. How many hours will you tolerate my telling you to your face that Allah is false and a cruel merciless being? Will you only despise me like the Meccans did the prophet?

>>As Prophet Muhammad was the founder of Muslims and that Allah was the one that sent him for mission, to despise and to protest against Muhammad is to protest against Allah since Allah is the one that sent Muhammad for preaching mission. The acts of protesting against Muhammad are undoubtedly to be against by all our muslim people since we respect Muhammad the most in our religion.<

Back to being Prophet Plato: "As Prophet Plato was the founder of Platonism and Halla was the one that sent him on a mission, to despise and to protest against Plato is to protest against Halla for Halla is the one that sent Plato to preach Platonism. The acts of protesting against Plato by Muslims are undoubtedly against all Platonian people since Platonians respect Plato the most in their religion."

Sounds great and very convincing, does it not, Nozzi?

>>The following are the extracts of the unpardonable move from Meccans:

The disgusted Meccans only PROTESTED when Muhammad started abusing their religion as reported by his first biographer, Ibn Ishaaq (Page 118-119 of Guillaume's translation of The Life of Muhammad, published by Oxford University press, Pakistan) "When the apostle openly displayed Islam as God ordered him his people did not withdraw or turn against him, so far as I have heard, until he spoke disparagingly of their gods. When he did that they took great offence and resolved to treat him as an enemy…."<<

Nozzi you say protesting against abuse is unpardonable. And you call yourself a moderate Muslim??

Regards

Plato

---

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".